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TimesArgus.com - We Are Vermont

Montpelier officials frustrated by lack of info on proposed granite train



A train heads from Barre to Montpelier last year. Lack of information about plans to ramp up traffic on the little-used line has city officials in the capital worried.

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By SUSAN ALLEN TIMES ARGUS STAFF - Published: March 13, 2010

MONTPELIER - Montpelier officials and the City Council want to be clear: They're not opposed to jumpstarting train service to haul granite waste from a Barre-area quarry, and possibly other companies located along the central Vermont rail line that runs through the Capital City.

What they do worry about, however, is the lack of information being provided about the project by the Vermont Agency of Transportation, as well as the potential negative - possibly enormously expensive - impacts the rail project could have on the city and its taxpayers.

"I'm not against having trains coming through Montpelier," said City Council member Tom Golonka. But, he added, "We're getting absolutely no information. We're treated like the city of Montpelier is irrelevant in the discussion."

Mayor Mary Hooper raised the issue at Wednesday's council meeting, voicing concern about rumors circulating about the project.

For example, she said, planning for the bike path to run from Montpelier through Berlin and into Barre and Barre Town has halted because it's unclear what impact, if any, the train will have on that route.

Other concerns include fears that Montpelier would have to give up its lease on Stone Cutters Way to allow the railway to build a staging area there for the train, a change that would not only create a serious transportation issue for Hunger Mountain Co-op and businesses located on that street, but might require the city to return the federal funds used in building up the area (which also includes a stretch of bike path).

"I'm not sure if that's true or not, and if that's true, we really have to be at the table," Golonka said.

In addition, the city is currently hoping to use areas of the undeveloped Sabin's Pasture for housing or other uses. Yet a rumor that the rail line might be run along that area has prompted worries that any plans for Sabin's Pasture will be terminated.

Another worry is that the city's work on a biomass-fueled city-wide heating system for state and city buildings, funded in part with an $8 million federal grant, might be in jeopardy because of the rail route.

That comes on top of on-going concerns about what the increased train service will mean to traffic problems, underground piping and infrastructure along the route, access for Montpelier's ambulances and other emergency vehicles, pedestrian traffic, and more.

"The city has stated very clearly we do not oppose the trains coming through. We understand the value of rail," said City Manager William Fraser. "All we've ask is to be included in the decision-making, included in the problem solving, and that there be attention paid to the issues."

The council asked Fraser to draft a letter to the federal Surface Transportation Board, sending copies to Vermont's three-person congressional delegation, to express its concerns at being left out of planning for the project. The STB is charged with resolving railroad service disputes. Fraser said he would talk with Hooper and Golonka to get more clarity about what, specifically, the letter should state.

Golonka told the council that he asked the state's point person on the project, Trini Brassard, assistant director of operations for the state Agency of Transportation, what agency the city should indicate its concerns to -- essentially what agency is above the state to settle this matter - and was told that would be the STB.

"They take up appeals, concerns between interested parties," Golonka said. "Montpelier should be on record that we deserve a seat at the table."

The council briefly considered asking other communities, including Barre and Berlin, to sign on to the letter, but decided that time was of the essence and voted to move forward immediately with its own letter. Others could follow up if they so chose, the council concluded.

The Vermont AOT owns the track and Vermont Rail Systems leases the right to operate trains on it. The AOT sent out letters recently to those who lease land along the tracks or have been driving on it, letting them know the leases will expire and trains will begin using that track at some future point.

Fraser expressed frustration earlier this week with that notification, saying he wished the agency had talked with those involved first.

On Thursday, Fraser and Assistant Public Works Director Thomas McArdle met with AOT officials, representatives of Vermont Rail, and the owners of the Montpelier buildings affected. Among the participants was a representative of Pomerleau Real Estate, which owns the Merchant Bank building and the owner of the building housing Montpelier Discount Beverage, both located right next to the rail line where it crosses Main Street. The purpose of the meeting was to consider options to minimize the train's impact on those businesses.

"The state had asked for the meeting. They knew there was discontent," Fraser said. He said the meeting went well; in fact, he wished the meeting had been held before the letters went out announcing the revocation of the leases.

"I felt like I got questions answered. I got the sense there were some choices and at least we weren't going to be out on a date certain," he said.

Revoking the leases without creating alternatives would eliminate parking along the tracks beside Montpelier Discount Beverage and close off access along that route to the parking lot behind the building; in addition, the drive-through at the bank would be blocked because cars currently exit by the tracks.

One option being considered at the bank site is a gate to prevent cars from using the drive-through when trains are moving past. Fraser said it was less clear what could be done to mitigate the negative impact on the beverage store and nearby parking.

Still, the meeting was a step forward, he said.

"People were better able to see from the railroad's perspective this it is what they're concerned about," he said.



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READER COMMENTS


OK, Baxter. You get the courthouse onto the train, drive it over to Montpelier and place it someplace and I'll keep an open mind about what it does to the city. How long do I have to wait for all this to happen?
-- Posted by Jest Askin on Sun, Mar 21, 2010, 4:52 pm EST

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Jest Askin - How about moving the Court House to Montpelier and see what happens to the city downtown and businesses. I think you would sing a different tune then!
-- Posted by Baxter P. on Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 10:43 am EST

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Oh yea, they will be showing a TED video at the kellogg-hubbard library and holding a discussion.

"Monday, March 22, 2010 from 12noon to 1pm
TedxKHlibrary lunchtime series
Bring your lunch, view a video from the TED website, and share your ideas about it."

http://www.kellogghubbard.org/ec.html

See you there.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 9:54 pm EST

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Melissa,

The government allows a lot stupid things to happen, that should not be an excuse. All I am trying to say is there is no need for the city council to be involved in this. It is what it is, and everyone was clear on the rules when the game started. Like I said before, there are 100 other things the city council should be focusing on.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 9:31 pm EST

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There is no problem. They will have to make new accommodations ML. I see the main issue is, yes they were using the area of the tracks, they now have to make new accommodations, as you pointed out the AOT provided the leases, shouldn't they have given them more time to make those new accommodations for their business'? Trini is saying as soon as april 1st they really should be communicating better about this. I do agree with you ML, they should have not used the tracks for anything, unless they were pulled up, BUT, AOT allowed the use in the first place.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 12:39 pm EST

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"As far as not having put gates in already- they've not needed them before. They've been fine until no"

So we do not need fire alarms until there is a fire? What are you, two? They should have put in gates, or at least flashing lights, at that intersection 40 years ago, or any time in between. Instead they chose to redistribute wealth instead of maintain the areas they are actually responsible for. As far as the bank putting a drive through over the track, that was a risk they took, and it was a bad one. I am tired of subsidizing idiots around here. Same with M&M, they chose to put in parking right along the track, bad call on their part. I am sorry it did not work out. What is so hard about this? It is not like they are just building the tracks now, they have been there since the early days. Nobody said they would never use the track again did they? We all know what travels on train tracks right? So what the H*LL is the problem. Please enlighten my, I clearly am not getting this.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 10:10 am EST

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Heck even the TA is stirring up the pot with their repeated news stories on the same issue with no new information (for their own agenda). I love the grungy picture they chose to use of the train for the story. Of all the ones they could have picked they chose one that looks sketchy, dark, and intimidating. Why not a picture on a sunny day, in the summer, with some lighter shades and colors? Because they are trying to shape your opinion before you even start reading the article. It is basic journalism methodology.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 10:03 am EST

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**The fact that you CAN'T see through**

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 9:58 am EST

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Benny,

Why does it matter? If they have a problem with the leases they need to speak with the ones who issued the lease (VTAOT) not the city, why get another party involved? And the officials say they do not mind the trains but then the rest of the article rails against it because their pet projects are in jeopardy (aw so sad). For instance, the bio fuel heating system, the bike path that they have been trying to build for over a decade, and so on. If it was walmart instead of hunger mtn, would they have the same issue? Nope, first of all, walmart would handle the issue itself, second, they only care because there is a certain voting base that shop there (aka the fraser and hooper supporters). And the whole part about sabins pasture is asinine, why the heck would the build a track up there? Fearmongering anyone?

This has been turned in to a political issue when it is not, a classic say one thing then do another from our city leaders. There are maybe 5 business in montpelier who will be affected by this. This is not an appropriate use of time and resources right now, there are 100 more pressing issues to be dealt with than this. If my lease for a downtown storefront is revoked who would I call first? The city manager? I think not. This is nothing more than hooper and fraser going out of their way to help the hooper troopers get what they want. No economic development unless they are in a position to make some money back. The fact that you can see through this shows your lack of critical thinking.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 9:57 am EST

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Bennett
Thanks for your posting, it's the only one that makes any sense on here.

I don't know what article these people were reading but all I read here was that the city has no prblem with the train coming thru and the city manager is doing exactly what he gets paid to do, he's taking care of the citizen concerns that were brought before him.
-- Posted by no name on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 9:24 am EST

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"Who is running montpelier? Who is crying loudly against it?...Why should they be concerned? It is not the city managers job to micromanage every action of the city."

ML,

That's not what's happening here. Some of the taxpayers of Montpelier had some concerns because their leases were revoked prematurely (unfortunate, but understandable.) They brought those concerns to the city council who in turn brought them to the city manager (which is exactly what they are supposed to do,) and the the city manager is coordinating with the rail-line and the quarry to figure out constancy, regularity and schedule, as well as other concerns of the Montpelier merchants and greater community. Sorry, to be the bringer of unwanted info, but representing Montpelier's concerns is the city manager's job.

As far as not having put gates in already- they've not needed them before. They've been fine until now. Only with the impending onset of a lot more train traffic, do gates make sense. I think you would be the first person to complain if a million dollar government project was executed before it was necessary.

The only person I hear crying loudly here is you. Everyone else is just doing their job.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 8:11 am EST

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If they were not concerned then this would not be an issue. They should have put in the crossing gates a long time ago. Once again, due to poor leadership over a period of time, montpelier is caught with its pants down. Why is it with all the money montpelier collects in taxes they are never prepared for anything? Oh yea, because the are overpaying everyone by half a million dollars.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 12:31 am EST

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Why should they be concerned? It is not the city managers job to micromanage every action of the city. It is their roll to hold administrative authority and regulatory and legal matters, not to artificially elevate themselves to utmost importance and get their sticky fingers on every cookie jar in town. I think it is a great thing to use the rails. We should use it more. People should take the necessary steps to ensure safety. It is not a big deal, the more the local government focuses on this issue the less they are focusing on REAL ISSUES, regardless or the different view points. Thats my whole point.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 12:28 am EST

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Ok dimwits,

Who is running montpelier? Who is crying loudly against it? Come on, you LIBS are like a bunch of two year olds. I know you are but what am I? So even when most libs in leadership positions in Motpeezy are against it (an they are) then two of you say you support it, then it must be true, cows crap more in October. Thanks for enlightening me. I have been trying to keep my comments apolitical but you people make it easy.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 12:22 am EST

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"drive around berlin, or Wiliston. These are two towns that have their priorities straight....I am beginning to think that by definition I am one of the most liberal here."

ML,

What I gleaned from this article was a city manager voicing the concerns of some of his city's merchants and trying to go to bat for them. Do you not want the city manager to represent the interests of the business people in his town? I haven't heard anyone from the city of Montpelier say that they don't think that the railroad should be able to use its tracks- only that the merchants of Montpelier wish to be able to continue to do business unhampered. Some of them might have to suck it up a little.

Personally, I don't see how the train really messes anyone up but the bank, and then, only when its actually going by. An automatic gate should take care of that. I think that mostly this is noise about not too much. And I haven't heard anyone complaining that loudly and what complaints there have been have been about a LACK of communication and information. You can understand wanting clear communication in these regards, right? So that plans and accommodations can be made... seems reasonable, no? If I'm missing something, I'm sure you'll school me....
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Tue, Mar 16, 2010, 12:18 am EST

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Not just liberals, but welfare collecting liberals at that Jest. Lame.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 11:45 pm EST

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I don't know ML, how many liberals are? What I'm seeing is how many people are questioning the process.. to you that says they don't want it?

None none, yawn with the welfare jibe, can't you be more creative?
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 11:43 pm EST

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When these idiots have nothing else to say they label us "liberals," Melissa. Like that's a BAD thing! Ha!

I'm all for the train too. I guess it must be the conservatives here who oppose an increase in business traffic, eh? The world gets stranger and stranger.
-- Posted by Jest Askin on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 11:01 pm EST

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Oh Melissa you are so smart. You should run for president and make all of the rules. Save us Melissa....... By the way do you only food with your food stamps?
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 4:24 pm EST

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Well melissa, how many conservatives are there against it? And you are a libertarian remember....

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 2:01 pm EST

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What is with the liberal bs it's added to every discussion, you folks that bring it up in every disagreement seem to have a mental disorder? Get the hell over yourselves already!!!

I'm for this happening.

Signed
LABELED LIBERAL!
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 1:48 pm EST

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"We're treated like the city of Montpelier is irrelevant in the discussion."

You are. Get over it.
-- Posted by VTAce on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 1:39 pm EST

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Hey Mr. Ducharme....

Youve' got it all wrong.. The tracks are all set to handle what little extra traffic they will see.. In case you haven't come out from behind your liberal bush in the last few years, the trains have been running granite all along.

It is obvious, because they proved it eith the 302 / 2 fleece about, Hooper and her anti business, traffic, noise, inconvience cronies don't really give too hoots (no pun intended) about business. Due to their ignorance, businesses along River St., Rte2 East & the B/M road took it in the checkbook last summer when the hour long delays came & she acted like it didn't even happen!! Businesses went under due to their ignorance. THEY had the choice of doing it at night... But 3 houses would have been affected by noise at night.. boo Hoo!!.. I guess it's safe to say you you would rather see another 12-14 dump trucks in Downtown Barre ... then you could complain about that.... Have a nice day in Hooperville, and if you see Mary, ask her how much of the 462K$ she gave to Scott she's got back!!!
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 11:56 am EST

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Hooperville...funny

Lets see some Progress and Change so everyone else has some Hope


Instead of the Petticoat Junction Hooterville Cannonball

they can just rename it the

Montpelier Junction Hooperville Cannonball

Toot Tooot
-- Posted by Are you Kidding? on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 10:38 am EST

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**second to last paragraph, sorry.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 10:09 am EST

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Michael Ducharme that last paragraph was for you. You must be a hooper trooper. They are the only ones ignorant enough to be against this and defend the montpelier officials at the same time.

ML
PS what about the berlin airport project? Why are to not as upset about the waste of tax dollars there? Hooper trooper agenda maybe?
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 10:08 am EST

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"alk around Montpelier some day and count the number of empty storefronts"

Jest,

drive around berlin, or Wiliston. These are two towns that have their priorities straight. There are numerous companies moving to Wiliston on a weekly bases because of the business friendly atmosphere they have created. Montpelier and the people there have their heads so far up their own rears that they chase any company even considering opening in montpelier out of town (even out of barre and berlin in the past too). This is unintelligent at best. They they ***** and moan about budget shortfalls and no jobs. Did walmart put montpelier out of business like they all said it would? Hardly. Any damage to the montpelier economy has been done by hooper and her troopers.

Back to the trains. Did anyone watch the video I posted? How can these people living in poverty be able to set up markets ON THE TRACK and keep their economy going when we, a developed nation, can't seem to do it if there is a store within 20 feet of the track?

For liberals you fight change quite a bit. I am beginning to think that by definition I am one of the most liberal here. What ever happened to accepting change and progressing forward? Oh thats right, you only support these if you benefit directly. What a bunch of low life's.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 10:05 am EST

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I applaud Montpelier and its officials. They have the insight that most of you commenting here don't. The loss of business will far outway the meager amounts of business that god-forsaken train will bring. The whole idea of refurbishing the tracks just so some other state can make money off it is just ridiculous. The amount of revenue generated form moving quarry stone from Graniteville to uses for the Army Corp (Nov. 25 article) is just a ploy to direct the attention from where the money will actually be spent. The stimulus package comes with stipulations to propose a plan of spending. The idea that refurbishing 13 miles of tracks will generate jobs is just a spoof. Tell me how many jobs will this create? Tell me how many train loads of material is intended to be extratced? Tell me how long the intended contract is to last? Tell me where the money will be spent. Until this is made public Montpelier officials are doing just they are supposed to do. They are asking the hard questions are putting the burden of truth on the right people. Why should they allow what business there is be jeopordized by some outsiders? Barre should look harder at their role and realize the end doesn't justify the means. The rail transportation division can easily spend the money elsewhere. They are good at wasting our tax dollars without justification.
-- Posted by Michael Ducharme on Mon, Mar 15, 2010, 7:33 am EST

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AyK, this shows a lot about your contentiousness and your inability to do any serious thinking: "But of course when Montpelier gets done chasing all the business into Berlin, they wont need a parking garage or more parking, ..."

Walk around Montpelier some day and count the number of empty storefronts. Do the same in Barre. I'd say that Montpelier will come out on top in being a thriving community. I wish Barre could be more like Montpelier, even considering their now-settled fiscal problem with that Scott company. In fact, I'd love it if Barre could have the same level of civic pride and an active business district. Why, people can even go to the movies in Montpelier without fear of being mugged by the thugs and their thug mommas, baby carriages in tow, at all hours of the night.
-- Posted by Jest Askin on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, 10:01 pm EST

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Good point Ml, yes they are, they have to stop using the area outback they use to load the papers into cars.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, 6:41 pm EST

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Is TA one of the ones affected by the use of the tracks in Barre? I think they are... Maybe their pushing their agenda.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, 5:53 pm EST

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Ignorance and arrogance are a requirement to be in any type of government and print reporting. All of this is just a solid verification of that fact.

It's ok for city government to keep information from its constituents, but when another government agency keeps information from that particular city government, it now becomes a cat fight...This is all quite entertaining watching these "holier than thou" rulers trip all over themselves on everthing that crosses their desk.

Welcome to Hooperville....Round 2....
-- Posted by David Bingham on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, 10:40 am EST

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The officials of Montpelier never fail to entertain. What a bunch a schmucks.

If they are concerned about leases being revoked, WHY ARE THEY DEVELOPING THAT LAND?!?! Who is to say once the bike path is finished the leases will not be revoked, what then? Why would you give building permits to the HMC to expand if the land is leased? Why is it that every chance these people get to be ignorani they gladly take up the opportunity to do so?

I watched this video from Stewart Brand last night in which there is a clip of s train going through a Bangkok marketplace that moves out of the way for the train, and quickly sets back up on the track once it passes. It is actually pretty neat.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/stewart_brand_proclaims_4_environmental_heresies.html (6 mins in)

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sun, Mar 14, 2010, 10:17 am EST

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Times Argus, quit fear mongering already! You addressed these same concerns on the 9th, need something to write about or what?

As far as the bike path goes they were told they were not revoking those leases.
And what is to come of the area's mentioned YET AGAIN IN THIS REDUNDANT ARTICLE!!!
http://www.timesargus.com/article/20100309/NEWS02/3090346/0/NEWS01
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 5:53 pm EST

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"The city has stated very clearly we do not oppose the trains coming through.. All we ask is to be included in the decision making..."
Where have we heard this "we aren't against it, we just want to talk about it" refrain before? Oh yeah, from the December 19, 2007 Times Argus article on the now squashed Home Depot for the derelict Ames strip mall in Berlin: "Montpelier Mayor Mary Hooper maintains the City Council in the capital is neither for nor against Home Depot right now - it only wants to gather as much information as possible..."
-- Posted by Patrick Cashman on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 4:58 pm EST

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ANd what business plans on being built on RR tracks?

Theres an empty parking lot they wont let cars park in, chased bus station away from, more useless, unused land. But of course when Montpelier gets done chasing all the business into Berlin, they wont need a parking garage or more parking, Montpelier is kind of weird when it comes to Planning & development, they actually have city offices and numerous employees involved in Planning & Dev....I sure as heck cant see that they plan or do anything productive to help teh city grow.

heck they wont even let Zorzi field build affordable housing for people.
The city officials have some sort of riverfront utopia like San Antonia Tx.
San Antonio, is warmer, nicer and has more hustle & bustle.
Monteplier rivers are muddy, smelly in the summer, and steep banks, who the heck wants to hang out in an 1/8 mile mud puddle zone?
-- Posted by Are you Kidding? on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 3:21 pm EST

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All the business's knew there was a railroad track and chose to ignore this fact when planning their business needs. They need to make new plans that don't involve trains. The AOT & lessee have legal rights here.
-- Posted by montpelier28 on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 2:02 pm EST

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STB is the legal grievance body you complain to once a local US DOT funded agency provides assesment that you take issue with.,,,,,,
-- Posted by W V on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 8:12 am EST

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Yah the lack of out reach by VTrans does seem to be rude ! But given a couple months those people charged to provide this information will be seeking new jobs.....I can personally attest that it is not "Trini's " doing's .
Check the structure organization chart to find the people charged with outreach with the community on these matters.
They are worthy of a wake up call on this rude behaviour.
-- Posted by W V on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 8:02 am EST

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How does it feel Montpelier?
We the People like the train and business and bringing some life back into your ghost towns,

Frustrated by lack of info huh>?
Maybe you shouldve thought about that when you hid your $462,000 mistake made by City employee who enetered data into computers to begin with, instead of telling the truth to public, became a coverup
-- Posted by Are you Kidding? on Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 6:54 am EST

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