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Cyber-trashing the issues



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By WALT AMSES - Published: November 18, 2009

I certainly understand why someone would want to post anonymously on The Times Argus Web site/message boards. A number of legitimate reasons have been provided in letters and subsequent on-line comments ranging from "I don't want my boss to know my politics" to "It's my right as an American to express my opinion." When one poster suggested that I would "die soon and nobody would care" and went on to describe what I was wearing, I even considered adopting a pseudonym for myself.

Most contributors make consistently reasonable points in mostly respectful ways. Coincidently, many of them are real people, posting under their real names. Although there are several anonymous posters with whom I disagree on most points, but we're still able to have a reasonable exchange of viewpoints.

But a core group of nameless, mostly conservative antagonists – known collectively as "trolls" – generally hijack every exchange, using The Times Argus space as a platform for hatred, viciously attacking anyone perceived left of Joseph McCarthy while remaining completely unaccountable themselves. Much of their commentary is strictly from the Sarah Palin-Glenn Beck lexicon of "dumb is good; irrational hatred is even better."

President Barack Obama, frequently called "Obammy," is a prime target, responsible for everything wrong on Earth. But so, too, are "socialists" and the ever-present "despicable Libs," locally this translates to shoppers at the Hunger Mountain Co-op. Gay-straight alliances become "Teen Homo Clubs"; teachers unions are "more dangerous than terrorism"; while the September demonstration in Montpelier, replete with "God hates queers" banners and vile rhetoric, somehow was justifiable.

Single-payer health care would "make it easier to justify legalizing marijuana, easier to abuse and get for their own use, cheaper … Then u wont have Barney Frank and his boyfriends with male prostitution rings and then getting busted for growing and selling pot, or trading for sex, same thing." (Times Argus Online, Nov. 14)

Huh? You can't make this stuff up.

It's difficult for me to read, not only because apparently people actually believe it, but, unfortunately, I haven't had the discipline not to engage. There have been times the last few months that I've felt like I was pulling someone's hair on the Jerry Springer show. Homophobia, racism, xenophobia, sexism, religious claptrap, anti-science rhetoric run rampant in cyber conversations and seemingly need rebuke.

I labored under the delusion that all this mindless venom would stop if faced with rational dialogue, but I don't believe that anymore. A more likely scenario is that the simple act of participating lends credence to illogical points, fantastic claims and outright lies. Just as allowing "intelligent design" discussions in science class provides creationism-in-disguise an undeserved foot in the door of legitimacy, debating with anonymous morons provides the illusion that they have something to say.

As if being easily triggered by all of this isn't embarrassing enough, believing what I said – if I said it rationally – would matter to anyone on the Teabag Express was not only building castles in the air, but expecting to turn them into condos. I've learned my lesson, however long it's taken.

I wouldn't expect The Times Argus to change the policy; there are actually some good reasons not to. And there's a disclaimer on the message boards that clearly states profanity, personal attacks and inappropriate comments will not be condoned. Posters who cross the line have been removed and banned from further participation.

I don't believe the commentators will change tactics anytime soon either. Most are too steeped in angry, far right ideology to see anything else clearly, save perhaps Fox News bromides and canned talking points. In fact, while reading this, they're breathlessly reaching for their keyboards, trembling with anticipation, anxious for battle.

But from this point on they're going to be battling someone other than me. I'm finished reinforcing hate-mongers, spewing nonsense so outrageous that they hide behind pseudonyms, too irresponsible and self-centered to monitor what they say, and – understandably – too embarrassed to be identified.

Walt Amses is a regular letter writer and blog contributor from Williamstown.



Editor's note: The Times Argus accepts only signed letters to the editor. Because of the nature of online commentary, it's not possible to verify identities. Users are encouraged to contact The Times Argus staff if they see objectionable content, which is then acted upon appropriately.








READER COMMENTS


Jeff P: Why not use the terms farmers use for right and left i,e, Gee and Haw? Our Vermonter leans to the Haw and turned to the Gee.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 8:20 pm EST

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Correct, for the sake of argument (I would argue the nationalism), so how does this encompass republicans? All I am doing a poor job of saying is, people should distinguish the huge variety in each party. You can be a Conservative Democrat or a Liberal Republican, meaning the people should not blame the "conservatives" for Bush. He was not conservative in a whole lot of ways, he was some sort of hybrid religious, reactionary, republican with liberal tendencies. I have been hearing more and more "the "conservatives" messed this up, so they can shut up now" and it is just not accurate or productive.

G.W. messed it up, "republicans" messed it up, and the last two years he had "democrats" writing the laws, helped mess it up. Conservatives and Liberals did not. Everyone with a "conservative" idea is not a limb of Bush, Beck, or Rush, far from it. So why are all "conservative" ideas automatically shunned as "we did what you wanted and look where it got us" and not look at seriously? As a libertarian, there are many instances I take sides with the lefties or "compromise". I just feel like all the compromising is getting us bills that are half intended to do one thing and half intended to do another, and in the mean time we are just getting worse and worse.

We need to stop with all the labels, I too am a number one offender. Listen to ideas, and if they stink, call em smelly. I for one am tired of taking the heat for "the right" when people mean Bush and his bad policies.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 6:40 pm EST

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Today the term the Right is primarily used to refer to political groups that have a historical connection with the traditional Right, including conservatives, reactionaries, monarchists, aristocrats and theocrats. But in modern times, the Right has also encompassed views supporting capitalism, free markets and some forms of nationalism.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 3:43 pm EST

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Bush ran as a republican, which he hardly was, and we was not ever a conservative. So you all need to remember the difference between the two, repups and conservs. Then while you looking see if Bush falls into either of them.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 1:06 pm EST

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*cough* seriously Jeff. they follow the constitution the closest? you complain about others bringing up bush, but dude you make it so fricken easy!
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 12:31 pm EST

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Oh and if the far left is all gov, why wouldn't the far right be no govt?

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 10:35 am EST

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So you see, you all crap on the libertarians, but most of you are just that. Welcome to the club.

Benny, bad example, but you first one seems to put all the "extremism" on the right, when the right is the ones who follow the constitution the closest.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Wed, Nov 25, 2009, 10:33 am EST

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Hey, Mr. Shapiro,Got to tell you I took that quiz and guess what? I flunked. They said they didn't have a classification for wacko. Oh well at least I know how to figue percentages. Have a good one.
-- Posted by Ed Kuban on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 10:49 pm EST

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Mr. Shapiro, Thought you lost me, I bet. Anywho took the quiz and guess what? I flunked. Actually I'm on the border line of Libertarian and Right leg I mean wing. Well, gotta go. Time to check on the Libertarian web sight, really. Anyway good talking to again Mr. Shapiro.
-- Posted by Ed Kuban on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 9:20 pm EST

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ML,

Go and read the definition of Liberal on the quiz you wanted us to take. You'll see that the definition of liberal is MUCH CLOSER to the definition of anarchist than conservative is.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 4:23 pm EST

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"the "far right" is not the "conservatives" but anarchist, the ultimate freedom from government (unrealistic as communism)."

ML,

But anarchism isn't far right. The far right is about religious CONFORMITY, not freedom. The far right wants to tell women what they can do with their own bodies. The far right wants a huge military and military involvement around the world and the military to enforce American foreign policy. The far right supports Israel and wants unilateral, military strikes against Iran, as they wanted a unilateral, unprovoked was against Iraq. The far right is very anti-drug use and other personal freedoms. The far right wants Christianity for all. The far right wants laws to govern all kinds of behavior. I COULD GO ON AND ON- NONE OF THIS IS THE LEAST BIT ANARCHIST. Anarchism is the extension of where liberal meets libertarian- it is the opposite of fascism which is the logical extension of conservatism. SEE THE CHART HERE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

Your misconception here is sad, but not unexpected. Sometimes I really question your ability to think logically.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 4:19 pm EST

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"All I see is some sort of lame and unorganized charts..."

ML,

Did you read the text? It explains the "lame and unorganized charts." I realize that this kind of information requires some processing and that it may challenge some notions that you have preconceived, but its pretty telling, in the end.

BTW,

I took your test and it told me I was on the left side of libertarian. We're not so far apart, after all. Is anyone who takes this test, a conservative?

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 3:23 pm EST

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For it to be really accurate, it should be much more extensive than the few questions it proposed.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 2:55 pm EST

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According to that test I'm Libertarian.

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 100%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 60%.

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...



LIBERTARIANS support maximum liberty in both personal and
economic matters. They advocate a much smaller government; one
that is limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence.
Libertarians tend to embrace individual responsibility, oppose
government bureaucracy and taxes, promote private charity, tolerate
diverse lifestyles, support the free market, and defend civil liberties.

*I support the free market only if restrictions are lifted and we get as much coming in to our nation as is going out.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 2:52 pm EST

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Love the test...it pegged me as a "Centrist"...and here I thought I was a conservative Democrat..
Oh yeah..FYI to all..
Gay isn't a "lifestyle", like jetting to Monaco for a gambling vacation every year, or skiing in Aspen. And it isn't a "choice" either..anymore than anyone chooses to be straight..or white, or male or female..
Just a thought I wanted to share...
Carry on...
-- Posted by CJ maloney on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 2:12 pm EST

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**libs to far left**
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 11:22 am EST

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All I see is some sort of lame and unorganized charts, the second one which claims Dean was more the the right than Kerry, not true on any account. And I find it interesting that they make the point to put liberals in the "center" and conservatives on the "far right" which is absurd. If they wanted to be accurate they would have done two really big things different, but they just wanted to show how "extreme" the right is. 1) the "far right" is not the "conservatives" but anarchist, the ultimate freedom from government (unrealistic as communism). I would even argue to put libertarians more to the right than the conservatives when it comes to economics and personal freedoms. 2) the libs and the conserv's should be set an equal distance from the median, or with the liberals to the far right, as more people in this country are conservatives, thus the more radical ideas are from the liberals and should be placed on the far left. This is nothing more that a very weak attempt to show how libs are in the middle which is simply not so.

Did you take the political quiz below? I wonder what you received from them for an affiliation? http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 11:20 am EST

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ML,

I just found a chart that might help elucidate what we were talking about earlier.

http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/politicalspectrum.shtml

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 10:13 am EST

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Dear CF Reality: Now thats the stuff! Sleep it off.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, 9:21 pm EST

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I think I struck a nerve!! LOL!
-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, 8:53 pm EST

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Dear Cf Reality: Tsch-Tsch! Nicey-Nicey! Do you have an itch where you are not able to scratch,it?
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, 8:02 pm EST

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Dear CF Reality: Here is your handle: Hi Mrs Buckwheat! Where is your raincoat. Your p%%%^&G and mo@@@@g may shrink you if your not sanforized. Be a good fellow and go to sleep-snore,-snore,-snore.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, 7:36 pm EST

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Like this, None None, that is being obnoxious....

Out of the blue all of one side "obnoxiousness" disappeared and here it starts from a different side.

Or is it?

You know what happened....

I instantly thought "Conserv. Troll" trying to dig a whole against their competition since they already buried themselves earlier.

I honestly started to write it off as that.. Because it sounds and acts just like the obnoxious ones in the beginning.

Sad thing is... We'll never know!!!... Anyone can carry anyone's Screen Name in these comment sections. All you need is a free email adress and some time. And you can be anyone.

It's sad.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, 5:55 pm EST

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"Good letter. Good points. Love the sports analogy. Thanks for doing that.

-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 9:53 am EST"

Thanks BS,

I forgot to say... (Team Owner & Backers = Partisans HQ'ers & Backers.) Behind the scenes. Where the big money comes from. Where the BIG decisions are really made. Where the ideology of the party is formed to fulfill their goal.

I wanted to add that in the "What disgusts me" post. But I guess that thought never made it to my fingers. :-)

Again, unfortunately we know how politicians will do or say anything to get office. And then they will end up following the "Party" ideology. To make them happy. Afterall, they are the ones that funded their campaign, and absolutely want something in return for their investment.


Jeff,

Don't ever get me wrong. I despise listening to the left extreme as much as I despise listening to the right.

And your 30-40%(Percent) matches mine. It just happens to be on the other side of the fence.

I've been thinking about it.. And wondering why we see things so different being so close on the percentages.

I guess it comes down to what you feel you wanted to say. But then someone says it for you. Maybe a little less classy than you would have said it. But it was said nonetheless. So it kinda disappears in memory like it wasn't even said.

I guess the car analogy works....

Have you ever purchased a car. And when you thought about it, you haven't really noticed many like it driving around?

And then all of a sudden.... They are everywhere.. Same model and color?

I guess it's the same thing.... We know what we don't like to see. And when we see it.. It bothers us more than what we expect to see?

If that makes any sense...
-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, 5:45 pm EST

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Jeff Perkins : Here you go again! YIPES! Your new handle will be:"The Rambing wreck" from Geogia tech". How any one can bloviate as much a you do and say nothing but complain complain, complain. Get a life ! Who cares about the fact youre a working person. Most people are? Get a life.cya
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, 1:44 pm EST

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Walt,

What did you really expect by putting this out here. We Trolls have to come out from under our bridges at some point. Are you affraid of something perhaps ?
-- Posted by Douglas Anthony on Mon, Nov 23, 2009, 8:45 am EST

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None,

Your a waste of life so don't expect many more responses from me. I was just thinking of all the great thing the "D's" have done to help our economy and the "working man". The new deal, is a good one, it is responsible for many wonderful "Democrat Solutions" like for example, the abandonment of the gold standard, cut farm production to increase prices, the national industry recovery act (increased red tape, higher prices and wages), FDIC (taxpayer eats the loss on bad private investments), The Federal Reserve, Social Security, NLRA (strongly favored labor unions), and billions or dollars more in entitlement programs (a bunch of which were ruled unconstitutional). Then after Roosevelt (D), came Truman (D), who brought us Medicare along with many other brilliant plans. Medicare, incase you did not know, has cost the U.S. taxpayers over $100,000,000,000.00/year the past 10 years, let alone the combined cost from the programs birth. Then Lyndon Johnson (D) gave us the gift of Medicaid, with a starting cost of $1,000,000,000.00 in 1966 to $200,000,000,000.00 for FY 2000 (10 years ago). Then we come to Carter (D) who gave us the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) which, "encouraged all commercial banks issue loans and mortgages to all segments of the community, including low-income areas". It was revamped under Clinton (D).

With the funding of these programs coming from the "evil" rich, it leave less and less in the "pot" for investments, development, expansion, or creation (the real job creating programs). The more you divided peoples money, the less wealthy society becomes as "multiplying wealth does not increase it". With all these programs burdening the system it is hard to justify spending another dollar. These figures don't even account for welfare, military spending, education, environmentalism, and other wasteful programs. Plus, with programs like the CRA and departments like the FDIC, democrats ignited a source of greed. They made it possible for Banks to loan to "high risk" recipients with little or no risk to themselves because the government "encouraged" it and "insured" their unsecured debt through establishments like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. We can all see how that worked out.

So none, for the one on the side of those truly responsible for out of control spending, do not lecture others about "getting a clue". You are pathetic and weak at arguing, you never have anything productive to say, and are an insult to common sense.

Please feel free to sputter nonsense in rebuttal, but the people who matter know what I say is true. They are the economist with whom I converse with regularly, not Rush or Mr. Beck, but experts with which I have become aquatinted with.

Keep up the poor work, your making this easy.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 9:34 pm EST

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"Only 15% of College professors are righties."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

Really? And according to ESPN.Com, only 25 percent of ML pitchers are lefties. Gee, it must be a freakin' conspiracy, ML. What's your point?

Nice try, Mr Loon.

That's almost as lame as attempting to use bozo bozell's factually-challenged, bizarro-world BS as a legitimate source. You'd have to be fairly unbalanced to even try.

SFW.

In the decade preceding the Great Depression, what percentage of US Presidents were gops?

What percentage of Tobacco Company CEOs are Dems?

What percentage of Investment Bank CEOs and Hedge Fund crooks who ran the economy into the ground under shrub are Dems, dim?

Get yourself a case and a clue.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 5:55 pm EST

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Are you yuckin that they did this to em or at his life style? I hope that its because of what they did.
ML

-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 3:39 pm EST


Yes

.
-- Posted by Purple Monkey Dishwasher on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 4:41 pm EST

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"Well when you learn a few "facts" let me know buddy.

http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/biasbasics1.asp"

ML,

Do you ever read the stuff you reference before you post it? If you did, you would have been embarrassed to post this as an "unbiased" analysis source. The Media Research Center is a self-described conservative organization addressing what they see as liberal bias. It doesn't mean that what they are claiming as liberal IS liberal. Its like asking people who have speculated about the price of oil going up if the price is too high now. If its in their interest that the price should go up more, then of course they're going to say the price is low.

I think that most thinking people agree at this point that claims of liberal bias are part of an overall conservative strategy to manipulate the press. Republican party chairman, Rich Bond, once compared journalists to the referees at a sporting event. He said "If you watch any great coach, what they will try to do is 'work the refs.' Maybe the ref will cut you a little slack the next time." That's all the claim of liberal bias is- an attempt to shift the debate farther and farther to the right.

When non-partisan analysts analyze the media they find plenty of conservative bias. How could there not be? Just a few mega-conglomerates own almost all of the mass media outlets: Disney, News Corporation, Time Warner, General Electric, CBS. Why would General Electric (or any of these mega corporations) have "liberal" policies in place that run counter to their own interests (or their advertisers' interests, for that matter?) To dream otherwise is just naive.

Did you read any of Scott McClellan's book where he explains how during the Bush administration he regularly and routinely passed on lies to the press, following his "superiors" orders, lies that the media without fail would report as facts? He says that while the press was generally honest and intent on telling the truth, that they "were too deferential to the White House, especially on the subject of the War in Iraq."

You can keep claiming a liberal bias if you want, but it runs counter to what I see with my own eyes and ears and brain. For me, when I hear someone make those claims, everything else they say becomes immediately suspect. Instead of repeating what obviously biased sources claim as biased, how about using some common sense and figuring some of this out for yourself?

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 4:27 pm EST

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Jeff Perkins how do you do it?On one post you post in "Gibberish " and in another post you seem logical. Is this two Jeff Perkin(s) or just a kindred spirit?
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 4:18 pm EST

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Are you yuckin that they did this to em or at his life style? I hope that its because of what they did.
ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 3:39 pm EST

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Reminds me of an incident where someone published my address and the fact I am civil unioned. That information was totally unrelated to the post. Kinda makes you wonder who the terrorists really are...

-- Posted by CJ maloney on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 6:03 am EST


YUCK

.
-- Posted by Purple Monkey Dishwasher on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 3:03 pm EST

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Well when you learn a few "facts" let me know buddy.

http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/biasbasics1.asp

Only 15% of College professors are righties.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

Not much time now, ill get you more later. The top link should keep you going for a bit.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 2:02 pm EST

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Nice try, ML. The media doesn't have a liberal bias, the facts do.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 11:57 am EST

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extreme*
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 10:44 am EST

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Good points, I still do not get why people say only the right is crazy. The left is far more crazy, they just control more forms of media so it seems like what they want/say is less extream. Hang with me. Hollywood, pop music, news media, schools, and colleges, all left leaning. The only thing the right has is talk radio, foxnews, and books. So in the average public life more people are exposed to far more liberal thoughts than the other sides. So when they do hear soething from the right, it seems very odd and radical for people. Now I do line up more with the right, but the left about 30-40% of the time. Does that make me crazy?

Watercloset, please try to be logical in your responces. BW had more high ranking minorities and women than does Obama now or any other pres has ever. So Hil, Pelosi, and Obama never lied, never spilt any bile? Have you heard of California and how messed up the political systen is there? Do you know what "Chicago style politics" is? Have you heard Pelosi speak ever? She is crazy as a coconut!

If people on the right are more crazy, people on the left are more hypocritical.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 10:36 am EST

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CFR,

Good letter. Good points. Love the sports analogy. Thanks for doing that.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 9:53 am EST

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In the end (continued)

Why it disgusts me....

Because both Republican and Democrat parties are a form of legal corruption. The money that supports both parties is coming from somewhere. And SOMEONE is looking for return on their investment. It's silly to think it is not true.

Until enough people are actually willing to do what is right. And not what pads their pockets. We will continue in this downward spiral.

Unfortunately that may never happen since "Money = Power". Dem and Rep are the two richest parties. They get the most support from those that are looking for a return. The return may be easier for the business. Or harder for the businesses which gives money to those fighting to keep business honest. Either one with too much support will hurt us financially, economically, or environmentally.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 8:32 am EST

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Here's my feeling toward politics and the followers.

On some level I see "The Sport = Politics", "Sport's Teams = Partisans", "Players/Athletes = Politicians" and their "fans = followers and spectators":

1) Some are there for the game and the experience. Because they love the game. It means something to them. And they know it means something to others. They are willing to reason and give all ideas a chance. They can discuss teams and players without getting angry or upset. They can honestly reason with intelligence and compassion.

2) Then you have the true fans. The people who have picked their team and their players. They are a little more sensitive to discussion and criticism. Sometimes their judgments are confused with anger and resentment. With the right people they can fool and joke around. But they may still be sensitive if provoked in the wrong mood.

3) Unfortunately there are always a few hardcore fans that are a bit obnoxious and rude, in your face, trying to start fights, drinking lots of beer with their friends, and not caring who is around them. They are only their for a good time. And if that means picking a fight with a lone guy hanging out with his family trying to have a good time. It don't matter to them. All they care about is their ALPHA attitude, thinking they are cool, thinking they are right, and thinking their attitude is acceptable or atleast unpunishable. (Extremists)


This is why I consider myself an "Independent". Because I want something better for all of us. I KNOW the right has many faults. I KNOW the left has many faults.

I cannot understand if it's a human emotion or switch that get's flicked that makes someone feel the need to "pick a team". But it doesn't make sense to me.

THIS ISN'T A SPORT. THIS IS OUR LIVES!

My friends, family, children, and of course my life depend on our countries success. I can't limit myself to one team that tomorrow may have the most disgusting players and ideas.

If people are so shallow to think it's ok to suffer today or tomorrow because 'MY TEAM WON'. Don't you find that odd? People are willing to die, go into poverty, and suffer tomorrow just so they have that feeling of 'MY TEAM IS IN CONTROL'. It's pretty sick.

In the end....

Like I said before. The right extreme usually disgusts and annoys me more because, for a simple reason, I see more and hear more of them in the number 3 section. That's natural since the conservative party is still one of the largest.

It became the hardcore right wring trademark to force Dems/Libs into the defensive or to upset them with lies/fibs. Just look at the past Presidential Debate. Everything the Republicans said were half truths... They would say these people voted against this and therefor are against it.. (like renewable energy). Democrats said no.. We were against the bill. Where the money was going to COME FROM. Not renewable energy.

The Republicans knew the truth all along. And instead of having some useful, healthy debate. It was wasted on lies and fibs. While not defending themselves when horrible truths were thrown their way.

It disgusts me to think this is all we have left. Men and Women that don't care about making a difference. Or who is actually better for the job. All they care about is getting the job and they don't care how arrogant, dumb, or worthless they look trying to get it.

This is what American politics has become. In the 10-15 years I've been trying to follow it and trying to do my part. It just disgusts me.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 8:05 am EST

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Good job Walt...totally a waste of a good stamp on this bunch, however. The good news is that 99% of them don't really do anything to forward their wacko ideals BUT post anonymous online rants. That really says it all about the validity of their "statements".
It's disturbing to hear about someone describing your clothing in detail. Reminds me of an incident where someone published my address and the fact I am civil unioned. That information was totally unrelated to the post. Kinda makes you wonder who the terrorists really are...
-- Posted by CJ maloney on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 6:03 am EST

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No Jeff... You got the wrong Idea by my "AYK is a Woman?"


I was confused because they wanted the 'Old world' to come back. I guess I'm confused by the women that would rather give up their rights rather than embrace them.


Right now.. AYK could be thrown in jail or hanged for having political thoughts as a woman. Understand? That's the 'Old world'. Free thinking women were considered evil/witches.


Unless, of course, if they assume the 'Old world' could exist today and she'll keep her rights exactly the same. But all minorities wouldn't have rights and would still be slaves.

For me.. That goes beyond wishful thinking. That's pretty disturbing. Woman's Suffrage and Civil Rights were not the same movement. But they seem to go hand in hand. It's hard to imagine one occurring naturally without the other.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 6:03 am EST

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"The left hates it when minorities and women rise up through the ranks of the right, they are threatened by it, and therefore they seek to discredit the individual as a "wacko" or "wing-nut""

Us lefties could care less if minorities or women rise up through the ranks of the right. What us lefties care about is how these folks migrate through the ranks and how much bile and lies they spill to get there. We also notice that there are very few women and minorities, especially in comparison to the left, that do come up through the ranks, since most of the rightwing are white folks still angry that slavery is gone. .
-- Posted by Watercloset on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 11:46 pm EST

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You hear that, AYK? I think ML likes you! Wow, what a first date that would be.

I don't think that "lefties" have a problem with women or minorities rising through the ranks of the right. I think lefties have a problem with idiots rising through the ranks of the right (and the right should too). Nice try though.
If you haven't noticed, the lefties have a black president and a female secretary of state.
-- Posted by None None on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 7:17 pm EST

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woman*
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 5:46 pm EST

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lefties are so funny.

Anytime a prominent Conservative/Republican women or minority steps into the media's spotlight, lefties proclaim, "Traitor!", "Extremist!", "A WOMAN!?". Look at Palin, Hasselback, Steele, and Clarence Tomas to name a few. The left hates it when minorities and women rise up through the ranks of the right, they are threatened by it, and therefore they seek to discredit the individual as a "wacko" or "wing-nut".

Is some of what AYK says "over the top"? Yes, but so is most of what the lefties say and even me too (on rare occasion). It's all in the eye of the beholder. I am not a women, if I was I would declare so proudly. I just wanted to point out my "extremist views".

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 5:44 pm EST

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Mean-spiritedness does not reside on the left or the right; it resides in the heart of the individual - left or right. Political extremists (left and right) are not necessarily mean-spirited. It is not the extremism that repels me; it is the demeaning and then the counter demeaning comments that repel me. Those comments serve no useful purpose - whether stated over one's real name or not.
-- Posted by Fred Woogmaster on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 8:03 am EST

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"So is AYK writing this just to shock us or does she really think that black folks should have to have their own bathrooms and water-fountains?"


AYK is a woman? Hmmmm... Well, if they wanted to go that far back. Why not just erase women's suffrage along with it? Sorry to answer a question with a question. But some people are kind of delusional. I just don't see women having equal rights to what they have now if the civil right's movement didn't occur. I could be wrong but...

Personally, I don't understand racism or sexism. I don't understand how someone can consider themselves MORAL when they feel so much hatred and animoscity toward someone they don't even know. Is that even Moral? No... I don't think it is. It isn't moral in half the bible. While the other half is hypocrtical... But is that other half even Jesus' words or ideas? Or is it conservative mans ideas after taking over the faith and the church?

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

Traditional families? If traditional means gathering together a mob with common hatred and stoning people just because they look different or have different idea's. Then, No, I don't want to be traditional. Traditional families are not perfect. And many cannot be considered Moral!

Their values? Really? ... Locking children up in the attic when they were deformed or retarded and did everything in their power from letting others see the truth? Beating their wives into submission because women had very few rights. (It was legal in some states to beat your wife as long as you do it in public. Or it's only done once a month.)


"That it should be illegal in most states for people of different races to marry?"

www.dumblaws.com - Unfortunately states do exist with very disgusting laws. You will even find the abuse laws I posted above. Some states still have curfews in their towns that are/were directed by "RACE".

Majority are conservative laws. And they are funny to read because you know the majority of society were guilty of these crimes. (Like... Oral Sex = Sodomy, Sex in other positions other than missionary = Sodomy.) So according to conservatives. Everyone is guilty of Sodomy. They just decided to change the definition since even they enjoyed it. What gives them the power to change ideology? And why not allow the same for others with different desires? Hypocritical at best.

If AYK had it his/her way. 95 Percent of adults would be in prison. Or would a majority surface and choose what is NOW OK and what is NOT OK? Again... Hypocrits... Choosing lifestyles for everyone based on their desires and their definition of morality.



"And how should we react when some one says something that reaches this level of inanity? Thoughts?"


I think some people live in a dream world. People were not better back then. Secrets were just easier to keep because the majority of society was less educated. You are delusional if you think people had less skeleton's in their closet back then. Today... Most skeleton's, as long as they don't hurt others, are allowed in the open. There are less skeleton's in peoples closet... TODAY... than there were in the past. That's an easy truth to reveal since a LOT more is accepted today than back then.


Gay Men existed back then. Many held high offices. Many hid behind lawful marriages to women. Many lived very unhappy lives not risking their fate by giving in to their desires. And many had secret lives. Even famous people and political figures.

Orgies, ******, and everything you can imagine still existed back then. Actually ****** and ***** houses were widely accepted back then than they are now. Very few states allow prostitution, brothels, or 'Bunny farms'.

Maybe we would have less sex crimes if people could get their jollies off easier? Like it was in the past? Debateable....

There is a lot of stuff about our past that we need to consider. Some may be better than today. Some is definitely not better. But to say we should revert our WHOLE lifestyle to the way it was in the 50's and 60's. That's just absurd.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 7:54 am EST

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"The only problem with the system you suggest is that it is dependent upon the sincerity and honor of the participants in order for it not to be abused."

Yeah, Bennett, That's true. I just have this delusional part of me that thinks most people want to make a logical difference. What was I thinking?... lol..

I guess I'd be very ignorant to assume atleast 1 left extremist or 1 right extremist wouldn't go through the trouble of creating 20 or more screen names under different free email addresses. And then control the forum/comments to their beliefs. (Which sadly is still possible with the current format. For all we know. Three or four of the extremists could be the same person.)
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 7:27 am EST

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All I can say is that after reading just the first paragraph of this horses***t, it's nothing but more of the same drivel - will you people please get lives? Does this "Blog" bother you *really so much*? Personally, I'm absolutely EMBARRASSED to use my real name.

PS - Mr Ames - PLEASE JUST TAKE* *YOUR* *MEDZ* *DOOD*! and get a real hobby/life!
-- Posted by owlcat on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 7:18 am EST

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Go for it, AYK....you have more insight than Harry Reid, PattyCake Leahy,
and all of the rest of the bombastic Botox Pelosis and their ilk....unless WAWA considers himself the last of the Heathens....lets take a vote on our squalid Village Idiot....99% for Queen of the Year, and 1% for Ignoramus of the Year....if the figures were reversed, it's stiill a TwinkleField reality.Just ask Owen and his nepotism regime.
-- Posted by giuseppe giovanni on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 5:09 am EST

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Cobalt Walt aint worth his salt....
He just trolls to the Aimsless
But when he spews venom.....
It borders on dumb dumb
And proves his case as Lameless....

Why not be an educator, rather than a self-satisfying masturbair?
-- Posted by giuseppe giovanni on Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 4:56 am EST

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LOL
-- Posted by Are You Kidding? on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 10:44 pm EST

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"Some of you are taking this blog too seriously. IT'S ENTERTAINMENT."

Man, do you know that entertainment is serious business?

To claim that this blog is not real is a real downer.
Does that mean you don't exist even while you keep blogging here?


..
-- Posted by A None on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 9:31 pm EST

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"Maybe the country is ready for another civil rights revolution like the 50's and 60's
only this time the people want the country back to the way it was before the civil rights and political correct era of discourse."

People,

So is AYK writing this just to shock us or does she really think that black folks should have to have their own bathrooms and water-fountains? That it should be illegal in most states for people of different races to marry? And how should we react when some one says something that reaches this level of inanity? Thoughts?
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 9:13 pm EST

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PMD,

If you don't get it at this point, you don't deserve to.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 9:04 pm EST

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Some of you are taking this blog too seriously. IT'S ENTERTAINMENT. Nothing more. It is neither real nor serious. Relax and play.
-- Posted by Olde Man on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 8:23 pm EST

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Oh-Oh boys get out the fire hoses this commenter section is getting heated again. I can feel the heat just emanating from the hot coals. AYK be quiet and stop throwing gas on the fire. Be saintly not devilish. Use a more ocncilliatory bait. These guys are getting vicious. WOW
-- Posted by None None on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 8:17 pm EST

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Whenever I read a post by AYK, I picture a morbidly obese lady with a feathered mullet sitting in a dank trailer home with the broken windows covered with old Take Back Vermont signs. Gives me the willies...
-- Posted by None None on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 8:11 pm EST

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The post below might be the most idiotic post AYK has submitted...and that is saying a lot.
-- Posted by None None on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 8:06 pm EST

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" ...this time the people want the country back to the way it was before the civil rights and political correct era of discourse."

"Well think about it , it worked. How did riots work so well?"

"Maybe someone with some wisdom can clarify this for me"

Disclaimer: I don't have the wisdom to clarify this for you.


But going back is not going to work. Who likes to live in the stone age again?
Then again, some might.
When I drive around Vermont here and there I find places with signs that read: Take Back Vermont.
The thing that stands out is that those places look really poor.

Riots will only work when the majority of the people are basically in agreement with the premise of the rioters.
Like: why should blacks sit in the back of the bus?

..
-- Posted by A None on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 7:39 pm EST

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Maybe the country is ready for another civil rights revolution like the 50's and 60's

only this time the people want the country back to the way it was before the civil rights and political correct era of discourse. The last 30yrs of immoral anything goes society is not working and this country needs to be reverted back to adhering to constitution as it was originally written and adhererd to and traditional family values and principles and morality.

Well think about it , it worked. How did riots work so well? Obama's neighborhood friends bombed police stations and DC buildings and were exhonerated the Vietnam war was ended. So how was it that all that violence actually got waht people wanted in the end? Did the people back then think the ends justified the means?
Maybe someone with some wisdom can clarify this for me
-- Posted by Are You Kidding? on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 7:14 pm EST

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"It is no longer about civil discourse and an exchange of ideas. It is now about put downs, name calling, and other forms of verbal disregard."

Well,
with this new technology, the internet, things are indeed different then the 1780's and the 1930's.

People in those times had only a very small audience to express their rants to.

In today's time anyone has potentially the whole world as an audience.
Now we are finding many more different views and personalities.
And it seems it's not that pretty.

On the other hand, isn't democracy supposed to make every voice heard?

The problem is that we now have over 6 Billion people. With the internet they all can be heard.
How can you filter out the useful information?
What can you do to not get upset when you come across views that you are opposed to, or when some are taunting?


..
-- Posted by A None on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 7:11 pm EST

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Sadly, what Walt describes is the great divide in the nation, one that is growing wider, deeper and more dangerous. It is no longer about civil discourse and an exchange of ideas. It is now about put downs, name calling, and other forms of verbal disregard.
What this tells me is that both sides of the issues are frustrated and have no other way to vent. We are all too imbued with talking points.
I wonder whether we would have ever had a constitution written if the right and left in the 1780s had just called each other names and not actually tried to come up with a solution to the nation's post Rev War woes.

Perhaps the only good thing about all the ranting here is that, at least, the ranters are just beating up on people verbally. Perhaps if they had had an online vent during the 1930s those in Germany could have gotten rid of their frustrations in a similar way, one that didn't perpetrate violence.

So while Walt is taking a hiatus from his posts, and I post when the mood hits, hopefully his comments will allow for a more civil discourse on really difficult issues. Instead of "its his fault" perhaps we can find reasonable answers to the problems.
-- Posted by Art Edelstein on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 5:38 pm EST

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But I appreciate this THIRD opportunity to make myself clear. Even to those with comprehension disfunction. Thanks...

.-- Posted by Benny Shap on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:36 pm EST


So, because you post your real name, you are somehow ALLOWED to post hateful comments? You are immuned from being civil?

Interesting

.
-- Posted by Purple Monkey Dishwasher on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 5:11 pm EST

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And if you don't mind, I don't think I'll "get over it" while injustice rules. And IMHO, neither should you.

-- Posted by Benny Shap on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 11:44 am EST


You have got to be kidding me. An injustice? Are you serious?

A general rule of thumb when reading your comments, for me anyway, is your desire to inject foolish comments, such as the one posted above, purely for shock value. I don't for one minute believe you truely feel there is an injustice occuring on a foolish newspaper web site. There are much more important things that can be classified as an injustice, user names on the internet is not one of them.

PS: What ever happened with the other Bennet Shappy that was posting on here awhile back?
-- Posted by Purple Monkey Dishwasher on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 4:55 pm EST

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Jim Rice ---- Lifetime BA of .298. No,,,,,, repeat NO!! world series ring. One strike away in 1986 but the choker boys let the ball go through Buckner's legs. I'd change my name fella.

GO YANKEES !!!! THE EMPIRE RETURNS !!!!!!!


.
-- Posted by Olde Man on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 4:52 pm EST

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"All you who use the term "teabaggers" be warned, you will not kick my butt! (one anti-teabagger took down 2 baggers)."

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/tea_party_protest_violent/2009/11/20/288989.html

ML,

Did you read this article? The scuffle was between tea-partyers and neo-nazi's, not the immigration amnesty advocates (who were a different group entirely.) The scuffle ensued because the neo-nazi's wanted to protest the pro-immigration amnesty advocates along with the tea-partyers, who didn't like that the Nazi's were on their side. Hilarious.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 4:45 pm EST

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"So you're saying that the fringe right-wingers in here speak for everyone that's right of center?..."

Average Joe Friday,

I don't think I made any such generalization that anyone speaks to or for "everyone." But I guess you had to be critical of something in my post. I notice you didn't address any of the content of my critical analysis of your commentary. No worries.

Much to a lot of people surprise (and to some's dismay,) I consider myself a conservative when it comes to lots of stuff. I have friends and family from all parts of the political spectrum. With some, we have heated debates. Its fun. I'm a Second Amendment advocate so a lot of my liberal friends are surprised by that. And if I think someone (liberal or conservative) is being bigoted or hateful, or even just intellectually dishonest (as I think a lot of the criticism of Obama is,) I'm going to call them on it.

I hope you have a great weekend and holiday, too. That goes for everyone who reads this.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 4:35 pm EST

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All you who use the term "teabaggers" be warned, you will not kick my butt! (one anti-teabagger took down 2 baggers).
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/tea_party_protest_violent/2009/11/20/288989.html

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 4:26 pm EST

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There are about a dozen overly enthusiastic posters that have some response to virtually every article. They then engage with each other in mostly mindless drivel, insults and slurs. There should be some limit set so that you can only post 2X on any article and 5X per day. If you can't get you thoughts across succinctly, you don't get to pollute the comment board with endless argument.
-- Posted by Jim Rice on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 3:59 pm EST

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My opinion of you just dropped a few points Bennett. So you're saying that the fringe right-wingers in here speak for everyone that's right of center? If that is your thinking then the same must be true for those fringe left-wingers. They represent all that are left of center. Your comment just gave a little more ammunition to the right-wingers.

I've seen some of your diatribes in here labeling people that disagree with you as hateful or ignorant people. You even accused me of that. I suggest you hang around those that you disagree with instead of automatically labeling them. Learn from them so you can be better preapred to discuss things with them. I've done this with many conservatives and liberals and have opened their eyes. They see the other side as less adversarial and actually have learned a few things. I feel it have benefited me greatly as I look at both sides of an issue before making a decision.

Before you can really understand an issue you need to listen to all sides Bennett. Improve yourself by removing your political blinders. Learn why others think the way they do so you can better understand them. This, in turn, will make you a better person allowing you to deal better with those you face.

I hope everyone has a good weekend. In case I don't post before then have a Happy Thanksgiving also!

Average Joe
-- Posted by Joe Friday on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 1:20 pm EST

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Bennett: I guess that is the problem...this board only allows for self-regulation. Message boards like this cater to people who all believe that their opinions are helpful and always insightful.

Please consider this "criticism from one's ideological brethren" that you mentioned. I agree with much of what you say. However, you need to ease up a bit. Please try not to post the same comments over and over and stay on topic. Not disagreeing with you ideologically, but just trying to contribute as a member of the community. You are becoming like the posters on the other end of the spectrum.
-- Posted by None None on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 12:31 pm EST

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The really really funny thing about Dubya.. He titled himself that!!!! Not the libs, not the dems, not the fringe lunatics, no one but Dubya, he likes to give nick names and that's one he gave himself!!! Geesh.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 12:28 pm EST

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None None,

When I feel as though I'm not helping the conversation, I'll be sure not to post. Thanks.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 11:36 am EST

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"It's interesting how quickly people forget the past. Back when GW was President there was a lot of negative rhetoric. Remember "DubYa? "?

It'd be nice if less people weren't so one-sided. It'd be nice if the extremes used a little less hate and a little more logic. It'd really be nice if Walt remembered that not too long ago the other side was being antagonistic and mean."

Average Joe Friday,

I meant to respond to you the other day and got distracted. A lot of the difference between what you describe as "negative rhetoric" during the Bush administration and that going on today, is that the criticism in the Bush years was based in reality. There was ACTUAL torture, warrant-less wiretapping, and a war based on LIES. The Right goes after Obama for things his administration MAY do: secret plots to turn the U.S. into a SOCIALIST or COMMUNIST country, or the implementation of private armies, or a plan to take away all of our guns, for examples. A lot of the same stuff that Obama is now accused of "tyranny" for, the Bush administration was lauded for, for "making us safer."

During the Bush years, people who criticized the administration were accused of treason- of being "un-American." During the Obama years, "patriots" claim to love our country so much they want their states to secede. During the Bush years, a guy was ARRESTED for wearing the wrong T-shirt to a Bush rally. During the Obama years, a guy brings his assault rifle to an Obama town meeting and when he is criticized, he shouts, "2nd Amendment!" Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, posters these blogs- those same people who are criticizing the Obama administration now, were marginalizing and ignoring the critics of the Bush administration, then.

You say that "It'd be nice if less people weren't so one-sided." I agree. How about the Right cluing in, huh?

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 11:30 am EST

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Bennett: So what is your suggestion to remedy the problem?
I think that you understand the limitations of regulating this forum. It is not going to change. Your self-righteous commentary implying that your position is correct and trying to cleverly insult those from the other side gets old after a while.
If you are so offended by others comments, the best thing you can do is to ignore them. They only keep posting because you encourage them. You won't convince them that you are right and they are wrong no matter how many witty and rational comments you post.
Or you could stop posting altogether. Nothing personal, but you don't add that much to the conversation. We get your point.
-- Posted by None None on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 11:13 am EST

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I choose to be anominous because I can't spell and do not know how to use spell checker. I don't want anyone to know who I am because I am the Phanton. I get a lot of news by reading the comments first then see if the original story matches. I get a better sense of the story that way. Try it sometime. I skip over the long comments because I loose interest. Just like your story Mr.Amses.
-- Posted by flathead on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 11:01 am EST

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CFR,

Take it easy on g.g.. We don't know if he's CAPABLE of learning- right?

The only problem with the system you suggest is that it is dependent upon the sincerity and honor of the participants in order for it not to be abused. I'm afraid I might share Mr. West's pessimism in humanity in this case- What is to keep a group of people from blackballing someone's participation based not on their abuses, but on their philosophy?

Again, I think criticism from one's ideological brethren is much more powerful than criticism from one's detractors. I think we need to police ourselves, and take some responsibility for each other. Its what community is about.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 10:43 am EST

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G.G. and others...

Don't you understand that you make his letter more true everytime you post a comment?

Are you capable of discussing something without the labeling, name calling, and useless rambling against someone.

Sometimes I agree with liberals. Sometimes I agree with conservatives.

But that's not the issue at hand.

Right now.. Walt is winning and his post his making more sense every minute. In your attempts to badger him and not discuss the topic. It makes him more right every post.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 4:47 am EST

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Very true Bennett...

If this comment section wasn't so simple it could be done easily.

Some posting sites allow people to Rate eachother's posts. And then posts are ordered by rating. And they allow you to leave reply's to posts so that will help keep it organized.

It could be easy to weed out those that have nothing good to say.

Like this...

(- Button) Rate ( Button) Everyone only allowed one vote/adjustment per post.

And then have another labeled (Garbage.. Attacking, hatred, etc...) Which will eliminate the post once it receives a certain requirement. Once they reach a certain amount of posts thrown away. Their IP is blocked. Game over.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 4:36 am EST

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WAWA has an inferiority complex,but revels in the negative attention he craves. Plainfield residents need to realize that this $70,0000 salaried "employee" is just a money-sucking troll who has a sinecure (do nothing job) that is sucking the economic life blood out of local taxpayers who have their children exploited by his liberal agenda. What a pathetic "educator" who bombastically pontificates while drinking coffee and walking around with earrings and sandals and does virtual NIHIL (nothing) while collecting a hefty salary at Marsh and Plainfield residents expense. What a pathetic joke. A virtual "do nothing" who pontificates and collects undo compensation from the good folks of Marshfield and Plainfield. Hey Walt, why dont you teach (an understood concept) and be a contributing member of society, rather than the leach that you are. The Giant Sucking Sound is the swill of your
verbiage that stands for the verbal garbage you spew.

Otherwise, the Aimless Flatulence of your existence counts for nothing as usual.
Give em hell, Aimless.....you belong in the Pseudo-Intellectual Abyss, reserved for the Radical Liberal Leanings of your Leftist Leninists.

What a joke
-- Posted by giuseppe giovanni on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 4:33 am EST

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Mr. West,

I don't know if Walt is naive as much as he is a little idealistic and hopeful- but maybe that's the same thing. Its easy to be disappointed with people when you have high hopes. Your point about having unrealistic expectations about some people's inabilities to learn or grow is a valid one. I'm not sure if my expectations are realistic or not and maybe I'm just not as down on humanity as you are, but I have slightly higher expectations of humans than to accept that there are some people who will lie, use bigoted language, spread hatred and disinformation JUST TO SHOCK US OR PLAY A GAME.

Again, I don't think everyone should have to use their real name- but there should be some system or attempt at accountability. If we're going to have anonymity- then maybe its up to the rest of the posting community's responsibility to point out the irresponsible behavior/language/hatred/disinformation when it happens. Again, I don't really have any expectations of these people learning anything- I honestly don't know if they're capable of learning, but I think that if they had some of their poor behavior pointed out by some of the people with whom they tend toward agreement philosophically, they might be more likely to accept the criticism than if it came from someone with an alternative viewpoint. And that would be at least something.

Policing one's allies might be much less antagonistic than policing one's disputants.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 3:58 am EST

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Before you read the letter just below this. Or if you have already read it.

It's not about who is right and who is wrong.

It's just about the letter and my experiences posting here. And .. the posts here.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 3:53 am EST

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I just read through all of the posts.

It seems 90 percent, or more, agree that you were a little harsher to one side than the other. But other than that your letter makes perfect sense and is very understandable. No one doubts the truth within the letter (The foundation of the letter without partisan B.S.) but for some reason many still do. Maybe they didn't make it half way thru?

Half of the posts are instantly name calling and attacking. Their feelings were definitely hurt. Instantly taking the defensive! Because they know who they are. They can't see the truth or are unwilling to accept it. Or they just don't care and they enjoy upsetting people because their lives suck.... lol.



Did they see no truth within the letter, at all?



Hate will win wars like this. The printed wars. Because they choose.. What to read! How much to read! And how angry to get against it! Once they get angry. How much do they actually retain? How much are they able to understand without anger getting in the way?


Unfortunately you can only teach someone the truth that is willing to learn. Same reason you cannot beat Terrorism with War. It's impossible unless you kill them all. You need to earn their trust and slowly teach them with education. And, again, you cannot do that until they are willing to listen. Not just read or hear. But to truly LISTEN and reason!!!



Personally, I'm an independent that hovers in the middle. I see the light on both sides of the fence on many different topics.

Like Walt... I agree that it is usually 80 percent of the time that a right winged attitude is making my skin crawl more so than someone on the left wing.

Why???...

For me... I guess it's because they have a larger group of posters that will instantly Label them, then name call (if the name calling wasn't already achieved in the labeling), and then have nothing useful to say afterwards.

It TRULY has nothing to do with the fact that they are conservatives or anything. It's just the instant animoscity towards someone without any effort for enlightenment.

All their effort is... is to annoy or upset someone. Never is it to make a solid difference. Never are they able to reason or put an effort to the cause.

Again.. It's not all conservatives. It's just a large group of posters that consistently do it on a regular basis.


Walt's Letter has a lot of truth. I think it would be wise for the conservative party to see the truth if they wish to stop the destruction and slow decay of their party. It's clear and to the point. This is what's hurting you. You would be wise to seperate yourself from those that truly are full of hate and have no room to reason.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 3:46 am EST

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Walt....still enjoying the inaneness of your hubris....polish those earrings and call it a day.
-- Posted by giuseppe giovanni on Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 12:14 am EST

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I also find it hilarious how many people think it is of the utmost importance to use their real names on this site and how it is a stain on the human race that there are ugly things said on it.

There are probably a million other forums in this world besides the Times Argus website. If you want a forum where everyone must be cordial, use their real names, and avoid mudslinging, perhaps the TA forum is not for you. Perhaps, if one of you you is enterprising enough, you could start and moderate a web forum where people would have to verify their real names and debate Vermont, national, and global news topics.

Also, I think some of us are overstating the impact of a TA news forum. How many people are realistically on this forum? 100? 50? 20? A couple trolls does not put a black face on all of humanity. By becoming offended and actually trying to debate them, you only encourage them to post more.
-- Posted by Mr. West on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 11:56 pm EST

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Walt, you are incredibly naive if you expect rational, well-thought out debates played out on internet message boards. It seems to me like you need to find another forum for which to express yourself and debate. Walt, if your posts are well-reasoned, they may convince some people or make them think. Others will write idiotic rants. I am surprised that you actually harbored illusions that somehow idiotic ranters would go away if you engaged them.

The Times Argus is a good place to put your ideas and thoughts out there. Some may want to engage you in debate. Others will wrant. Many people will take the opportunity to shock and provoke naive people like yourself. If they are bothering and rankling you, then you are playing their game.

Also amusing to me is your holier-than-thou worldview of rational, scientific leftists going up against backwards rightwingers. I have news for you Walt: the blowhards consist of a majority on both sides of the aisle.
-- Posted by Mr. West on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 11:44 pm EST

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I think he thinks he's a legend in his own mind. And posting on this paper website is a tribute to Life in Wally's World as Wally sees it
-- Posted by Are You Kidding? on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 8:51 pm EST

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Me too. What will I do without my daily Walt?
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 8:31 pm EST

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I find it laughable that people think this message board matters
-- Posted by David on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 7:13 pm EST

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The liberal Moon Bat rhetoric is at it again...lol
God Bless you all
-- Posted by Are You Kidding? on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 6:43 pm EST

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AYK, you need to tighten that ***** that's loose. People of all status' can be dangerous. I'm really sick of your labeling one group of people. This letter is directed mostly at you, but you just don't get it!!
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 6:09 pm EST

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I see that another brain dead liberal has arrived on the scene. Could it be Walt with a new name? Could it be Jeff Cooper in drag? Anyway, Max thanks for the empty brilliance that you have shared with this blog. One more liberal name caller is just another liberal name caller. Get over yourself!
-- Posted by BS Avenger on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:58 pm EST

Gee, manure spreader, it's 5:07. Be a good little beckerhead, fire up glenn and go fox yourself.
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 5:09 pm EST

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Sure thing, carlo. Hitler didn't see race, either. He had nothing against Jews, he just hated non-aryans.
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 5:06 pm EST

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Here ya go Max. There's dissension between the two. they are going to be their own down fall. Cheers.

Yeah, I know. Gee, that's a shame. It's like the hitler/stalin split.
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 5:02 pm EST

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The FBI encourages internet safety and anonymous name posts. i suppose Benny n Wally know more than the FBI now?

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/pguide/pguidee.htm


The FBI warns against giving personal information or true names on internet to maintain saftey from people like the libs, dangerous.
-
-- Posted by Are You Kidding? on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 5:01 pm EST

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http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137269

Here ya go Max. There's dissension between the two. they are going to be their own down fall. Cheers.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 4:57 pm EST

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Max: Me thinks you protest to much. I find it ironic that you criticize these people and do not look at the radical left side also. Where is you criticism of these people. At least Walt stated his opinion with a little class most of the time. This statement "ya think this whole ignorant, racist teabagger thing " is totally out of line . I do not see race as an issue and I also see people of all races speaking up finally so where is the harm. Oh ? I see they do not have your values. lol
-- Posted by carl None on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 4:33 pm EST

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"...And on something completely different, the reason my real name is not used is because of the economic repercussions that my family could potentially endure if I did. We can all agree that Vermonters are very opinionated to say the least, so I don't want some comments made half seriously on TA to result in "lost revenue" for others in my family. Pretty simple."
ML

In other words, ya think this whole ignorant, racist teabagger thing of yours might be bad for business. Ya might be on to something there, ML.
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 4:20 pm EST

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Bennett: So how would you suggest regulating the bad behavior? Any bright line test that we could apply? Should everyone be required to post under their "real name" and include their address and phone number? Or maybe just the "offensive" posters?
By the way, without someone doing some additional internet research and snooping, you are just as anonymous as everyone else on this board. It is this additional research that is the very reason most choose to be anonymous. I am sure you think everyone knows who you are, but you are just another name on a message board, nothing more.
Unless you want to publish your name, home and business address and phone number?
Truly yours,
Cornelius Honeycutt III
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 3:43 pm EST

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OK Walt, So you put your name out there. If you would also post your address I would like to send over a box of tissues and a cup of hot tea! Hope you're feeling better! Your Pal, The BS Avenger

And how will he know where to send the thank you note, nutless?
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 3:42 pm EST

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Wow. Do any of you people have jobs, lives or get out of Vermont once in a while. Seems like an awful lot of hate, judgement and blame over nothing. It is bizarre how far off point some of you TA blog fetishers will go on a daily basis. I am glad that it is so trivial and boring that I only log on to read on a rare occassion. I hope that one day there will be an intellectual conversation going on that actually makes sense and changes something or infulences the ignorance thriving in these posts. Have at it wacky bolggers...
-- Posted by Jig Goob on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 3:34 pm EST

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Melissa, feel free to point out just where I said they had no right to protest.
I merely asked you to distinguish the two teabagger groups and to tell me what makes one legitimate and the others lunatic fringe. Astro-turf racist trash is astro-turf racist trash, but if you have something to distinguish one from the other, feel free to produce it. What's the rumpus?
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 3:19 pm EST

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Max-
Its like the democratic party. It has Bluedog Democrats(fiscally conservative, believe in the working guy, conservative values and morals) and then theres the progressive liberals(Godless socialist, marxisit, liars, theives as they have no conscience, jealous of people with money and assets they arent smsart enough to earn themselves)
. The liberals tag along and hijacked the democratic party, just to be clear there are some really nice decent democrats, they certainly arent lunatic libs.
-- Posted by Are You Kidding? on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 3:04 pm EST

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I see that another brain dead liberal has arrived on the scene. Could it be Walt with a new name? Could it be Jeff Cooper in drag? Anyway, Max thanks for the empty brilliance that you have shared with this blog. One more liberal name caller is just another liberal name caller. Get over yourself!
-- Posted by BS Avenger on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:58 pm EST

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Max, they have a right to object to something, and they are doing it in a civil manner. That's my point. If someone chooses to protest an issue, it's a constitutional right to do so. The patriots are doing it in the manner of civility. You or I can disagree with some of their points, but they aren't being lunatics about it and aren't carrying signs of discord that creates a major controversy. They are merely pointing out issues they have with taxes being raised. You have the right to counter point if you wish, if you take theirs away, then yours will be too.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:49 pm EST

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Bennett, in what world are teabaggers accountable? If they wanted to be accountable, they wouldn't be teabaggers.
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:45 pm EST

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"The Patriots are a movement that split from the Express because they (express) are fringe lunatics. Patriots can be respected for their stance on not wanting more taxes and have reasonable arguments and are from all parties."

They can, eh? Why? How?
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:43 pm EST

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"Wow, Bennett. A bit dramatic. Anonymous TA blog comments are a sign that "injustice rules"? I think that you are taking the situation too seriously. If this is injustice for you, I can see how the important things would really bother you."

None (Cornelius) None,

Boy, did you not understand (or pretend to not understand) the content of what I wrote or what? I thought I was pretty clear. To restate one more time: My problem is NOT WITH THE ANONYMITY. It is with bad behavior (and people not paying attention) committed without accountability. While "TA Blog comments" ARE NOT a sign that injustice rules, LIES, HATRED, BIGOTRY and DISINFORMATION spread by people who remain nameless and therefore unaccountable for what the say ARE. But I appreciate this THIRD opportunity to make myself clear. Even to those with comprehension disfunction. Thanks...

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:36 pm EST

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I just want to clarify once again. There are two Tea Parties. One is Tea Party Express. The other is Tea Party Patriots.

The Express is the fringe lunatics.

The Patriots are a movement that split from the Express because they (express) are fringe lunatics. Patriots can be respected for their stance on not wanting more taxes and have reasonable arguments and are from all parties.

Cheers, have a great day everyone.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:17 pm EST

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So, in the same published piece, Walt demoans the supposed attacks by the conservative fringe, then stereotypes everyone who doesn't agree with him and uses an slur to refer to anyone who believed in or participated in the Tea Party movement. Hypocrisy, thy name is Walt.
-- Posted by Monty Fox on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:04 pm EST

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Teabaggers have no facts or legitimate sources to offer. That's why they're teabaggers.
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:04 pm EST

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OK Walt, So you put your name out there. If you would also post your address I would like to send over a box of tissues and a cup of hot tea! Hope you're feeling better! Your Pal, The BS Avenger
-- Posted by BS Avenger on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 2:00 pm EST

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Dreams can come true Joe =-)
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 1:11 pm EST

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Wow, Bennett. A bit dramatic. Anonymous TA blog comments are a sign that "injustice rules"? I think that you are taking the situation too seriously. If this is injustice for you, I can see how the important things would really bother you.
Keep up the good fight.

Sincerely,
Cornelius Honeycutt III
(does this make you feel better?)
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 12:55 pm EST

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It's interesting how quickly people forget the past. Back when GW was President there was a lot of negative rhetoric. Remember "DubYa? "?

It'd be nice if less people weren't so one-sided. It'd be nice if the extremes used a little less hate and a little more logic. It'd really be nice if Walt remembered that not too long ago the other side was being antagonistic and mean.

Melissa and I can dream.

Have a good day all.

Average Joe
-- Posted by Joe Friday on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 12:16 pm EST

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"Bennett, who cares if people don't use their real name? Even Walt concedes this point. Get over it. "

None None,

I think that people would be a lot more likely to behave like human beings and a lot less like they "habitually depart the bounds of sanity and reason" if they had to use their names.

It doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't use their name does this, but what I think Walt actually said was, "a core group of nameless, mostly conservative antagonists- known collectively as "trolls"- generally hijack every exchange, using The Times Argus space as a platform for hatred, viciously attacking anyone perceived left of Joseph McCarthy while remaining completely unaccountable themselves."

A big part of the "hijacking" and "hatred" and "unaccountability" comes from the fact that these people don't have to be responsible for what they say or do on these blogs. I was just reiterating the point. Its not the anonymity that I have a problem with- its the cowardly hit and run mentality of using the anonymity to espouse hatred, bigotry and lies, with ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY.

And if you don't mind, I don't think I'll "get over it" while injustice rules. And IMHO, neither should you.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 11:44 am EST

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I guarantee that it will only be a few of days before Walt begins posting anonymously or with a pseudonym. He won't be able to resist.
For that matter, maybe this is Walt posting now...
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 11:36 am EST

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If you read many posts, there is often a lack of forethought and critical thinking and a whole lot of "off the cuff" opinion. People frequently use words like "fact" or "proof" when they are actually expressing an opinion.

The idea that anthropogenic climate change or global warming exists is a matter of opinion. There is no irrefutable "proof" and it is not a scientific "fact".

Opinions should be expressed and discussed in this forum. That's the point. However, I think it would help keep the conversations more civil if opinions were not stated as facts. Just my opinion!
-- Posted by Jim Rice on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 8:45 am EST

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Eye wis wee cood awl get a long an eye all ways chek mie speling, grammer, and inglish sin tax befour eye peaust enything

Uv coarse eye peaust thiss wit tung n cheak

TJay
Berlin, Vermont
-- Posted by Timothy Janawicz on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 8:04 am EST

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I suppose writing "teabag express" is neither childish or cowardly? What a load, and posted by the TA, no surprise.
-- Posted by James Hill on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 7:42 am EST

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Walt: Friendly suggestion: Post only on issues for which you have direct knowledge or informed insight. Post your thoughts once with maybe one follow up and then leave it alone. Don't engage in back and forth exchanges with posters that are clearly trying only to antagonize you; life is too short.
-- Posted by Black Book on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 5:59 am EST

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The one issue I have with your post ML. In the end you stated that for your family you are not posting your name, but you had no issue taking someone else's out of the phone book that isn't yours, that isn't participating. and does have a business that can be harmed by your posts. That wasn't very thoughtful of you, maybe you should change that by creating something new. You an always email the webmaster and ask them if you can some how change the current one you are using, we use to be able to do that with out a problem, but they changed things that we can't anymore.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 12:21 am EST

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Wow ML. Good post..
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 10:34 pm EST

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All,

In the name of all things "right", I must acknowledge that Walt is a true "gentleman and a scholar, a prince among men, a judge of fine wine, women, and whisky, and there is d*mn few of us left". Although I do disagree with Walter on 80% of what he says, there are many admirable traits he holds. For instance integrity and honesty. Walt does genuinely care about the cause and, no matter how misguided his solutions are, he does always stand up for what he thinks is the "most right". He stands against corruption, abuse, misuse of "the little guys". He never wavers and always stands planted in his beliefs. He is honest, consistent, and well intending. I can say I enjoy walters comments more than most on here. He is even funny sometimes too!

I do think his views will lead this country in the wrong direction if implemented, but I do not dislike him, wish harm upon him, or anything other than health and happiness. I feel like sometimes we all get lost in the passion and say things a bit too "aggressively", but its all in the spirit of debate, free flowing ideas, and sometimes raw emotion. If we always agreed and thought everything was just peachy it wouldn't be right. Thats what makes this country so great is the ability for each of us to voice where we stand, and then defend that position accordingly.

So don't "give up" walt, its not about winning or loosing in this case. We should all just recognize that the more we get lost in debating each other, the more the politicians get away with, on both sides. I only hope future generations will be able to enjoy a truly free debate as we all have here many times.

And on something completely different, the reason my real name is not used is because of the economic repercussions that my family could potentially endure if I did. We can all agree that Vermonters are very opinionated to say the least, so I don't want some comments made half seriously on TA to result in "lost revenue" for others in my family. Pretty simple.

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 10:04 pm EST

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Bennett, who cares if people don't use their real name? Even Walt concedes this point. Get over it.
No one takes your comments any more seriously because you do. And it certainly doesn't stop you from responding to people who don't. If it really bothers you, just ignore anonymous commenters. Be the bigger person, don't comment about being the bigger person.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 8:38 pm EST

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Once again, Wally has confrmed that it's "his way or the highway". I've had several exchanges with this guy and everything he's complaining about, he engages in. However, I can assure you that I post with my real name. I do not hide behind a pseudonym as some on this thread complain about. That's the individual's choice to do so. We remember about individual choice, don't we? If you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen.



"Here's my trash: Blogging got you upset Walter? Get yourself a new skirt."

-- Posted by Olde Man on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 4:55 pm EST

Good post Olde Man, but may I make a suggestion. Before he puts on his new skirt he should change his diaper too.
-- Posted by David Bingham on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 6:15 pm EST

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Feel better?
-- Posted by Purple Monkey Dishwasher on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 6:00 pm EST

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I dont know whats worse, Walts letter or the fact that TA admits, "Walt Amses is a regular letter writer and blog contributor from Williamstown"

Not sure which is more shameful...

ML
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 5:32 pm EST

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The point being Proud Republican, is no one seems to be able to retort with out negativity. I don't even know who you are, or remember you posting in the past, but you've attacked me on other threads today... I have seen Walt be negative, I didn't say I hadn't; several of the posts in here have lumped all people together, if you have an opinion of walt so be it, but you and others are lumping a whole entire political view with one person, point made man.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 5:31 pm EST

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Here's my trash: Blogging got you upset Walter? Get yourself a new skirt.
-- Posted by Olde Man on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 4:55 pm EST

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Oh wally wally wally, have you lost your marbles?

This is just too funny. Way to show us how classy you are. I think you could have fit in a few more whimpers and whines in there but thats just me.

So is it ok to do what you accuse if one posts their real name? Because Walt, you are the godfather of e-trash talking on this site, I learned from month of reading your post just how to act.

Way to condemn those, "dumb is good, irrational hate mongering, racist, sexist, homophobic, tea-bagging trolls" for calling mean names. Great job walt, soon I wont have to post either, you do so well proving my point for me. LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER!

M freakin L
-- Posted by Jeff Perkins on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 4:46 pm EST

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Boy are the whiners coming out of the woodwork now! Here they come folks ---DUCK----!
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 4:38 pm EST

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"I have to agree with Patrick on this one, it's disingenuous to say all the mean spirited posts are from one side of the political spectrum."
-- Posted by Dan M on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 5:21 am EST

And it would be even more disingenuous to pretend that it's even remotely a 50/50 situation. It's not.
-- Posted by max ambrosini on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 4:06 pm EST

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Walt,

Good letter. But you've got to realize by now that cowards are cowards and they will hide behind their pseudonyms and continue to trash talk and lie and be hypocrites for as long as they can. Look at this very stem- "Proud Republican7" so proud of being a Republican that he/she is afraid to use their real name.

I also have lost my temper with people acting like morons and have gotten down into the mud to sling words on these blogs. Its easy to get suckered in trying to fight the lunacy.

Anyway, thanks for the letter.



Mr. Cashman,

Good points. It would great if you (as a sane and logical person) could help in pointing out to some of those posters who "habitually depart the bounds of sanity and reason" what they are doing when they are doing this. People like Walt and I can try to point some of this out to folks, but as "libs" we have limited credibility with those who "habitually depart the bounds of sanity and reason." Thanks for your well reasoned thoughts.

.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 3:50 pm EST

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Mr Republican I applaud you for your comments,re Mr.Walt Ames rather rhetorical dialogue aka disocurse on his mea culpa thesis. I might conlude this Commnetery by stating it is the nature of the beast. tha is what contributed to the invention: Crying towels.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 3:26 pm EST

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Melissa the responses prove the majority feels Walt is a hypocrite who loves negative attention. You seem to come to his rescue fast without really understanding his letter is putting people down for their oipinions. Do a search of Walts posts and you will see, as I have that 90% of them are in a negative manner attacking someone.
-- Posted by Proud Republican7 on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 2:44 pm EST

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Dear Mr.Walt Ames of Randolph Vermont: Sounds as the tenor of the comments in your letter, published today in the T.A., are acccusing commenters of the same behavior you are accusing other commenters of doing to you? Like you say it has happened to you with responses to your comments in the past. Be good it is human nature to forgive. Move on and with time this issue wil sort iself out. Don't fret so much! Come on you can play in my sandbox.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 2:06 pm EST

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I think many of the posts in response proves the point quite well..
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 1:52 pm EST

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Hypocrite? Looking for negative attention? Out of control when not in control?

All symptoms of the progressive liberalism

PS Joe Biden was on TV admitting Dems in current congressional adminstration now are socialists . See in his own words, he corrected Mr Stewart and said not Marxisits, but they are Socialists.
So there, i love "in their own words" videos
Cant argue the truth
-- Posted by Are You Kidding? on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 1:05 pm EST

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Proud,
but didn't you know, liberals are open minded? haha...I'm sorry, but this is another example of what liberals do when people disagree with them. Yes, they call names, walt, you know who i'm talking about. Be careful when taking the opposition with libs, as you will likely be labeled racist, a homophobe, or a nazi.

Those with conservative views are wise to remain anonymous for your writing this letter, walt, further validates their reasoning.

I congratulate you for taking the democratic approach of using the liberal media for yourself, and the dems, to take low blows at the republican party. It's like you took a page right out of their play book, walt?

Why is this the common approach dems use to validate their views? because thats what bullys do! When they are insecure about themselves, they call names and stones.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 12:55 pm EST

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Oh here we go, another post, and why we need real names blah blah blah blah

How many futile attempts and whining and omcplaining do the libs need to make??

And what is the point?

Rutland Herald, Bennington Banner and Burlington Free press dont waste theri time on these moronic complaints.
Green Mountain Daily however, uses teh F words and other swear words right in the main articles.
Wally stop your whining
-- Posted by Are You Kidding? on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 12:46 pm EST

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Walt: While I generally agree with many of your positions, I find that this letter is a bit pretentious and hypocritical. I do find that you usually post rational comments, but you are certainly one who often resorts to name calling and rhetoric. Just because you use your name and write a letter to the editor does not give your opinion any more legitimacy or validity. You definitely presented some rather extreme comments and made some pretty nasty comments about some other less articulate contributors.
If you really have a problem with the trolls that you often engage, don't engage them. It is that easy. Though you state that you will no longer respond, I am sure you will eagerly monitor the many vicious comments that will surely accompany this letter. Your letter will not change anyone's position or help the discussion. If anything it is a self-serving cop out as you could have just stopped commenting. I am pretty sure most people don't read the online TA to see what daily wisdom your impart.
Again, I do generally agree with you, but your comments are just as repetitive and unnecessary as the extreme views from the others side (though better articulated and with better grammar and spelling).
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 12:09 pm EST

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One last thing. If you do not like Fox News that is ok. Some do and believe they are fair and balanced. Do not HARASS others who do not share your opinion. Also, its disgusting to see you blame conservatives and label the blame on a different party than your own. Seems to me you may need to get a life and put the effort from your letter into understanding others have valued opinions. I cannot believe the Times Argus posted your idiotic letter.
-- Posted by Proud Republican7 on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 11:40 am EST

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Mr. Amses are you serious? I read through most articles and skim through the posts and you are one on the main instigators. I have noticed when you do not agree with someone you name call first. When the other person responds to you with their opinion, you harass them with name calling. I mean no one is perfect; but, I cannot believe you would write this letter like you are innocent. You are telling people not to steal, when you've been stealing all along.
-- Posted by Proud Republican7 on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 11:37 am EST

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test
-- Posted by Proud Republican7 on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 11:32 am EST

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In case you were wondering how to spell my name its

J-O-H-N A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N

I live in Marshfield, VT
-- Posted by ok then on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 8:48 am EST

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Mr Ames those who call the "kettle black" shouldn't throw stones nor make faces at the people on the other side of the Mirror. Your diatribe and venom on this comment section has been, on numerous occasions rather biting to say the least. Your no candidate for Sainthood.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 8:45 am EST

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Mr.Amses: I also have limited my blogging on the TA for the same reason you so eloquently expressed. But I also feel that you are a little hypocritical in that you also joined in with name calling and very hurtful diatribe . I am not saying you were not goaded into that type of dialog but you still participated. Your vehemence to Ms Palin and to Fox news is a testament to your left ideology. Same could be said for the likes of NBC, NY times and Keith Oberman etc. I keep my name hidden because there are radical extremist on both sides and I do not want to deal with them at my home. I have had a few conversations with you and some were very interest and enlightening while others became nonsensical. Have a nice day.
-- Posted by carl None on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 6:16 am EST

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Mr Amses

Bravo! I couldn't have said it better myself. I haven't posted on the times argus blog in quite a while because I was so hatefully attacked for having an opinion. The Times-Argus does not enforce it's stated policy and the right wing obstructionists just spew their hate and "talking points". It's really too bad because it stifles debate.
-- Posted by Paul O'Kane on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 5:48 am EST

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I have to agree with Patrick on this one, it's disingenuous to say all the mean spirited posts are from one side of the political spectrum.
-- Posted by Dan M on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 5:21 am EST

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Mr. Amses,
I fully agree that some poster habitually depart the bounds of sanity and reason, however attempting to tie what is essentially an individual character flaw to a perceived or assumed political orientation is deceitful. Such posters exist in plenty on either side of any issue. As a counterweight to the poster you referenced, see any of the assortment of posts by Mr. Jeffrey Cooper under one of his many names, or a post you yourself identified as out of line stating someone should swing by the house of an individual opposing gay marriage and "teach her a lesson".
-- Posted by Patrick Cashman on Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 4:43 am EST

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