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Ludlow woman files complaint against food shelf



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By JOSH O'GORMAN Staff Writer - Published: November 23, 2008

LUDLOW – Food shelves typically serve up free canned goods along with a large helping of good will, but one woman has filed a complaint with the state claiming her local food shelf has been less than neighborly.

Martha Pierce, 35, of Ludlow has filed a complaint with the Attorney General's Consumer Protection Unit claiming she was treated unfairly by a representative of Black River Good Neighbor Services, an agency that assists residents of Cavendish, Ludlow, Mount Holly and Plymouth with food and financial assistance.

Pierce said she first went to Black River Good Neighbor Services about six months ago to ask for help for herself, her husband, Scott Pierce, 31, and their three children, ages 17, 15 and 7. Pierce said she and her husband were behind in their rent, and she appealed to Black River Good Neighbor Services for financial assistance.

"I go in, and it's eating a big piece of humble pie just to go there, and she starts questioning me right there on the floor in front of everyone – how much money we make, how many kids we have. There was no privacy," Pierce said.

Pierce was referring to Audrey Bridge, Black River Good Neighbor Services' store manager. In addition to operating the secondhand store, Bridge also takes client information to determine if they are eligible for assistance.

Pierce was told she was not eligible for rental assistance because she was behind in her rent, and in the last week of August she and her family were evicted from their home. While her husband stayed with her mother in Mount Holly, her teenage children stayed with friends and she and her youngest child stayed with a coworker.

Pierce said when her husband returned a second time to the food shelf, Bridge said she didn't understand why his family needed food when Martha Pierce had been seen at convenience store in town buying beer and cigarettes.

Pierce acknowledged she does drink and smoke, but referred to herself as more of a social drinker and smoker.

"But why should that even matter, and who's to say the beer and cigarettes were even for me?" Pierce asked. "I run errands for people all the time, and there's no way to know that what they saw me buying was for me."

On Nov. 1, Pierce's family moved into a house in Ludlow and Tuesday she returned to Black River Good Neighbor Services for food. Pierce said when she asked for food, Bridge questioned how many children she actually had living with her.

"To be talked to like that, I feel like she's picked on me and been rude to me," Pierce said. "I mean, to question a mother about her children like that? Nobody should be treated that way."

Bridge declined comment for this story and referred questions to Black River Good Neighbor Services President Martha Quinlan.

"Anything that happens with a client and us, we are bound by confidentiality," Bridge said.

Pierce filed her complaint with the Attorney General's office Tuesday. Jason Duquette-Hoffman, program coordinator for the consumer assistance program, confirmed his office had received the complaint. His office keeps complaints on file for six years, and said this was the first complaint against Black River Good Neighbor Services during that time.

Duquette-Hoffman said the complaint had not yet been processed. Once it is, a letter will be sent to Black River Good Neighbor Services asking it to resolve the complaint with its customer.

He said if the first letter doesn't resolve the problem, his division will follow up with additional letters and phone calls. Duquette-Hoffman said his office receives between 300 and 900 consumer complaints a month.

Since 1986, Black River Good Neighbor Services has provided food, clothing and financial assistance. Sixty-five volunteers and two employees, one full-time and one part-time, run the assistance program.

The organization is in the middle of preparing holiday gift baskets, which contain ingredients for meals and gifts for children. In 2007, they distributed baskets to 114 families, giving food and gifts to 170 adults and 132 children.

Quinlan said she was unable to discuss specific clients but she did clarify her agency's policies. When someone comes in for help, Black River Good Neighbor Services asks for information about their income, rent payments and household size in a private office separate from the thrift store.

"I would be very surprised if she (Bridge) talked to anyone in public," Quinlan said.

Quinlan said it is true Black River Good Neighbors will not assist people with past-due rent or utility bills.

"We just don't have the money to pay people's back rent," Quinlan said. "If someone comes to us needing help with bills for that month we might be able to help."

Quinlan also said Black River Good Neighbor Services would not deny help to someone because they drink or smoke.

"Some people who come in are chain smokers. We're not going to discriminate against smokers," Quinlan said. "It's their income, not how they spend it that makes them eligible."

Sometimes it is necessary to question people looking for assistance to be sure they really need it, Quinlan said.

"We don't cross-examine people unless we know something they don't think we know," she said. "We have to judge if they're lying to us or not."

For now, Bridge has the full support of her board of directors, Quinlan said.

"Our store manager has done a tremendous job," she said. "She's increased volunteers, increased food coming in, and I'd hate to have a disgruntled person ruin our relationship with her."



Contact Josh O'Gorman at josh.ogorman@rutlandherald.com.








READER COMMENTS


I have met people who have told me that they moved to Vermont to access the great Reach Up benefits which include getting their education paid for.
-- Posted by Say what? on Thu, Nov 27, 2008, 9:57 am EST

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I know, Christina, as I have in-laws who are professional users of the system... former users, I should say..as Mass. will not support able persons...it will support the children, however...
On the flip side...they have managed to scam the local power supplier out of about 10k of power by changing the name the bill is in, wrecking at least 4 credit ratings..family credit ratings..so that's how much they care about others..you see, in Mass, if you don't have power, you lose your kids to the State...same if you don't feed them properly..
-- Posted by patriotemt on Thu, Nov 27, 2008, 4:27 am EST

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patriotemt, how do you know where our welfare imports come from?

I don't see the advantage for families from Massachusetts to move here for welfare when Massachusetts does not impose a time limit on families either. Are the sanctions somehow tougher there than Vermont's version of taking the benefit to pay the family's bills (leaving little discretionary income for partying, I would hope).

I am curious what happens in other states when the time clock does run out. If the parents did not work before, why would they when time is up? What skills or resume would get them a job after a 5-year absence? With no family income, what happens to the kids?
-- Posted by Christina Colombe on Wed, Nov 26, 2008, 3:47 pm EST

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Vermont's welfare system is VERY liberal...as evidenced by the migration of people who move to the state specifically to take advantage of it..mostly from New York and Massachusetts. That state, by the way has VERY stringent requirements to stay in the system. I've also noticed a huge explosion in former Louisiana residents who have suddenly discovered that we apparently have huge checkbooks..
-- Posted by patriotemt on Wed, Nov 26, 2008, 9:58 am EST

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Olde Man, you are correct unless something changed since this 2006 report. Thanks for the challenge--I learned something! The next time I hear about "The Reach Up clock only ticks when there is no work," I will inquire about this report.

"5 states have no time limit
"Massachusetts (exempt families), Michigan, New York, Oregon, Vermont"

http://www.povertyinstitute.org/matriarch/documents/Time%20limits%20updated%2011.19.07%281%29.pdf
-- Posted by Christina Colombe on Wed, Nov 26, 2008, 12:44 am EST

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I remain skeptical about the aggrieved person's claim in this story. Anything is possible, but this sounds more like an exzageration than the gospel truth.

Also - The 5 year welfare limit is not enforced in Vermont. Repeat - NOT ENFORCED.

There's too many people on welfare because they choose not to work and would rather have someone else take care of them. Welfare was designed to be a helping hand, not a way of life for 3 generations. There are some people who do fall on hard times and should frankly, receive more than is allowed. There are young people who CHOOSE to have children knowing full well the government will hand them a check. These are the folks that should be tossed off. Believe it or not: some people are just plain LAZY and refuse to work.

Welfare should be more like unemployment compensation. You have to had worked to qualify and it won't last the rest of your life.

.
-- Posted by Olde Man on Tue, Nov 25, 2008, 8:56 pm EST

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My comment about going to dead-end jobs and chasing after children was not meant to rub my college degree in anyone's face. On the contrary, it speaks to an important issue in the news for sometime. Where are the good-paying jobs for people, particularly in Central Vermont, who do not have a college education? Unless you have a trade or can sail into the family biz, you are stuck with low-wage, go-nowhere jobs.

Maybe my circle of people is just too limited, but there are few financially comfortable people I know of with only a high school education. Of those very few, they have a trade like construction or hairdressing. The typical person I know works as a salesperson, cashier, health aide or in clothing manufacturing or takes in children for daycare, legitimately these days, instead of under the radar to supplement welfare benefits as in the past. None of these typical scenarios pays well.
-- Posted by Christina Colombe on Tue, Nov 25, 2008, 7:41 pm EST

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"Schadenfreude." What an awesome word!
-- Posted by GreenMtn Livin on Tue, Nov 25, 2008, 2:43 pm EST

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"If your rules of morality testing for aid were in effect, I most like would not be writing here because without the option of going to college, I would be too busy chasing after children and going to dead end jobs to keep Reach-Up, Medicaid and food stamps for the kids."

As an intelligent woman, that DID NOT attend college, I find this comment very insulting. There are many people, women and men both, that did not/could not, attend college, probably some that have voiced their "opinions" on this matter via the internet, that are not "chasing after children" and going to "Dead-end jobs". We are literate, responsible and proud people that work hard every day, using our brains just as much as a college educated person. With the economy the way it is, there are hundreds of people each day given a pink slip, cutting their earnings to shreds, that are in need of help. Even with being on unemployment, the amount of money that they receive is above the guide limits for income, if they had a good wage per hour at their place of employment.

I think the matter here, whether the family qualifies for any assistance or not, is whether there was a breach in confidentiality There are people out there that abuse the system. For the ones out there that need help, can not get help because of their income, it makes it hard to swallow. Going into a facility asking for any kind of help is very humbling, I know, I have been there. To have my information spouted out in front of the public is not something that I would want.

I only wanted to comment on the quote I pasted. I wish the best for all families that are on hard times, which is pretty much the entire state. For those that have NOT attended college,that are just as intelligent as one who has, that have jobs, and are still finding it extremely hard to make ends meet, having to decide between fuel, food or electricity, or the gas to get you to that job, not being able to get help because you make $8.50 or less per hour, trying to provide for your family, KUDOS TO YOU!

Maybe this Thanksgiving we should all take a look at what we have to be thankful for, taking nothing for granted.
-- Posted by Sarah on Tue, Nov 25, 2008, 8:17 am EST

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Hi Melissa,

I found a stats page for Reach Up, but two of the links did not work for just now in Firerox. I used the "Contact Us" page to report the links.

http://dcf.vermont.gov/esd/statistics

I have seen a report in print somewhere, so I know it exists, showing how many families stay on Reach Up for 5-, 10-, 15- or 20-plus years. Some of these families, of course, had extended stays before the Welfare Reform rules went into effect. There is current saying in regards to the 5-year lifetime limit, "The Reach Up clock only ticks when you are not working." In other words, some people work and still qualify for some sort of state assistance, and so long as they have met their weekly requirement of 20 or 40 hours per week, it does not count toward the 5 year limit.
-- Posted by Christina Colombe on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 3:59 pm EST

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You know, I did express myself poorly...I sure didn't want to insult folks who fell on hard times and need a lift. However, I flat out refuse to help those who can come up with every excuse under the sun as to why they can't do for themselves, and then proceed to drag their offspring right thru the mud with them. It's INEXCUSABLE to treat a child like that. If you want to be a ********** go right ahead, but don't take the innocent with you.
I'm sorry Christina had an apparently hellish life as a child, and commend her mother for doing all she could. However, I fail to see where her insight comes from insofar as how this related to 2 apparently healthy individuals sucking the efforts right out of a local foodshelf. I also don't understand where these same individuals sense of entitlement comes from. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. I sure would like to hear the woman from the food shelf's spin on it. And we never will, cause she is apparently way bigger than that.
And another question...there is a TON of state programs to help this apparent very need ..was that too hard to apply for or was providing hard FACTS of need to the State gonna get them kicked out too? Hmmm...I wonder...
As liberal as the State welfare system is, it still says NO now and then...
-- Posted by patriotemt on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 3:14 pm EST

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Hi Christina,
I worded that wrong. What I meant is why doesn't people that are working find it hard to recieve aide when they are down and out, financial difficulties, but yet, people who have done nothing to help themselves get any and all aide, above and beyond.

Your point about needing a vehicle for welfare recipients taking classes to better their lives is truly understandable, and is how they should be worked with, however, I have seen time and again people on welfare that are receiving these things and not doing the above.

Social Security Recipients, now that's a good subject, my Dad was on SSI due to retirement, he swallowed a big big bag of pride to go ask for help to be turned away by welfare when I was a teen, my mom was deceased, they told him he made to much, he was able to get fuel assistance and for us that meant getting some wood paid for which helped, but he wasn't making that much, and it wasn't understandable to me at that time or now, how a man making SSI with a teen couldn't get aide, but a woman with no means of support or a man, with children, could get full aide from them. It's skewed in that sense.

I had a friend that was on welfare when she moved to vermont, she found a job, she wasn't even making as much as she was on welfare, she went for aide, they turned her down, she made like 5 bucks over the limit..umm, how so, she was making more sitting at home on welfare? She asked them that, they told her, quit your job and we can give you full aide!!!!!! WHAT???

The system is changing now, they are reforming it to help those that are helping themselves to a degree.

I agree, a reach up story for all of us to understand this would be good education tool.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 12:40 pm EST

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Melissa B.:"Why is the working people the ones that are helped in time of need, instead of those that refuse to do anything at all but have kids and add more burden onto society."

Perhaps one of the parents is disabled? There is NO deterrent to those collecting Social Security Disability from having more children, primarily men. ." There is no deduction from their checks for child support at all! Childbirth and filling out applications for the support of the children fall on the mailgned "Welfare Mom."

The car and unemployed status of the other parent may be for the parent to attend education classes to qualify for something more than cashier, which we all know will never support a family.

Because the situation you cite pops up again and again on the boards, it would be nice to see an article about the Reach Up program, what it provides, and statistics on how long it supports families and at wage the family makes at certain marks of time.
-- Posted by Christina Colombe on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 12:12 pm EST

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With the economic downtown, I have to admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude with the proud middle class, like patriotemt, looking down their noses at people who have less, and have had less in the way opportunities all their lives. Now some in the middle class are in the same boat by qualifying for WIC and Medicaid! One example was Cathy Resmer's article in Seven Days what it really was like to get food assistance for her family: "Getting WIC food has also put my family at the mercy of a system that sometimes makes false assumptions about us, and that can be demeaning."

http://www.7dvt.com/2008will-wic-food
-- Posted by Christina Colombe on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 11:45 am EST

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Some of these comments are alarming to me. Did you read the article fully?

The lady said she was eating a big chunk of humble pie to even ask for help.
The woman doing intake asked her personal, 'confidential', questions right out in the front store. Further down the article, the intake person said she couldn't comment because of confidentiality.. UMMMMM, where was that confidentiality when she went in and asked for help and she was asked financial info and child info in front of others in the store front?

It seems to have been missed by some readers that they were all indeed living in the same home when she initially went for aide, only after being turned down apparently because they had to much financial income, not giving them FREE LOADER STATUS, where they all separated a bit later after being evicted for being behind on rent. They then went to other homes to try to get through this rough time.

As I commend most food shelves and community aide for helping when they can, there are times when they are rude and don't follow protocol. Maybe the intake person was overwhelmed that day and didn't handle things properly, but none the less, from what is being said, she didn't handle it well at all, there appears to be a lack of confidentiality if she did indeed ask personal info in front of others there waiting for aide, or hoping for aide.

Maybe they made bad financial decisions and it put them in this mess they are in, but I don't see where they are freeloaders at all, they only found themselves in hard times and asked for help, and found themselves being treated badly.

These are hard times for some right now, I hope none of you ever find a time when you may need to eat that big chunk of humble pie and find this type of situation that regardless of how bad off you are, you are turned away,

but if you really are a freeloader, they give you all the handouts they can give you!!!!

Why is the working people the ones that are helped in time of need, instead of those that refuse to do anything at all but have kids and add more burden onto society.

The welfare system is skewed, it should be helping those that help themselves, not those that do nothing at all and get everything for free!!!! Including rent, food and clothing, as well as vehicles and DAY CARE, for what, they aren't even working!!!!!!
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 11:26 am EST

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am not familiar with this agency. But I do run a program that promotes good choices. I would never disqualify a person because I saw them drinking or smoking cigs. However I would try to talk to the person about good choices. It does not mean I am forcing them to quit, Only point out that cigs and beer are optional choices and not required budget items. Yes, smoking is a hard habit but this habit is not a requirement.
My program promotes choices thru realistic goals. Most of the time this works because it involves talking and letting a person choose the goals they want to meet. I don't make Rude or Personal comments like "I don't know why you need help with food."
Comments are not required but listening and seeking are required. I wrote an article entitled "State of Denial. The article was critical of social service groups that lacked the most basic listening skills. I have found this out. A defense I commonly hear is "Well you try dealing with these people they are rude and feel entitled."
I tell the person if they feel like that get out of the social service line of work. None the clients seeking help deserve hardened treatment. In this case theres two sides to this story and without Bridges side I am going to second guess her actions Ill leave that to CAP and AG's OfficeMy progran promotes choices thru realistic goals. Most of the time this works because it involves talking and letting a person choose the goals they want to meet. I don't make "Rude or "Personal comments like "I don't know why you need help with food."
Comments are not required but listening and seeking are required. I wrote an article entitled "State of Denail. The article was crttical of social service groups that lacked the most basic listening skills. I have found this out. A defense I commonly hear is "Well you try dealing with these people they are rude and feel entitled."
I tell the person if they feel like that get out of the social service line of work. None the clients seeking help deserve hardened treatment. In this case theres two sides to this story and without Bridges side I am going to second guess her actions Ill leave that to CAP and AG's Office
-- Posted by Zachary Hughes on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 10:32 am EST

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patriotemt: "I am sick of the whole 'poor choices' excuse....a food shelf (in my estimation) is a hand up, not a permanent crutch. In my line of work, children are going w/o the basics so that the parent can have a few things...like the cell phone the beer, the cigs...children have a fever for days and then end up in the E.D. for 'free' Tylenol, simply because the parent 'doesn't have the money' to buy some."

As to food shelves being used as a "permanent crutch, " how is 6 months of usage "permanent"?

Who do you think suffers under your rules to exclude usage of food shelves and ERs to CHILDREN of parents who have addictions to alcohol and cigarettes? Parents aren't, that's for sure. My father never in a million years would have given up alcohol, cigarettes and bingo to provide support to his children. He figured he supported them already with the automatic token support from Social Security Disability, which did not cost him a dime! As for my mother, she had no such addictions and sacrificed her own clothing, which was threadbare, in order to have meat, milk and cereal in the house. Too bad she did not have the education and inner strength to tell him to go blow. That became my job when I returned from college in Massachusetts.

So you are saying my brother and I should have been denied Thanksgiving and Christmas baskets because we were children of a mentally ill father, who felt he was being a good Catholic making children and putting on the system, whether in Barre, or in long-term foster care in New Hampshire. Children do NOT get to pick their parents. They only get the chance to care for the parent who was any sort of parent at all. At my father's funeral 2 1/2 years ago, only two of his six children showed, which is very telling. I know I would not go to say goodbye to a man whose last words to me I am sure included words unprintable in this publication. He could not control or abuse me because I had the education and opportunities to rise above that and give it back to him with both barrels.

If your rules of morality testing for aid were in effect, I most like would not be writing here because without the option of going to college, I would be too busy chasing after children and going to dead end jobs to keep Reach-Up, Medicaid and food stamps for the kids. Oh yeah, I would not have the Internet because that would be wasting food money under patriotemt's rules.
-- Posted by Christina Colombe on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 10:24 am EST

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Finally something Patriot and I agree on.
-- Posted by Mark Redding on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 9:12 am EST

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Christina, I am sick of the whole "poor choices" excuse....a food shelf (in my estimation) is a hand up, not a permanent crutch. In my line of work, children are going w/o the basics so that the parent can have a few things...like the cell phone the beer, the cigs...children have a fever for days and then end up in the E.D. for "free" Tylenol, simply because the parent "doesn't have the money" to buy some. It's total crap.
Instead of enabling these parents to cruise the food shelves, some effort must be made to break the cycle. Observing parents freeloading off the system is only going to breed another generation of this behavior.
My hats off to the lady at Black River Services....she's really trying to help those who need a hand up, not a wheelchair ride..
-- Posted by patriotemt on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 7:39 am EST

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myhappy4ever...read a little further down the article and it says they had all just moved into a house on November 1st so all the kids and husband were with her.
-- Posted by Pat Gile on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 6:06 am EST

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Anyone staff I've ever known in any foodshelf in VT have been compassionate and working there because they believe in helping people. I don't know anyone involved in this story but I imagine resources are scarce and difficult decisions have to be made by an organization that serves the less fortunate. The newspaper doesn't say what the person making the complaint wants to see happen. Is she suing for money? Trying to shut down a charity? Does this organization get tax dollars or they funded by donations?
-- Posted by Olde Man on Sun, Nov 23, 2008, 4:48 pm EST

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Tom free: "get a job and pay you bill if you have to"

It never ceases to amaze me that the first assumption when someone falls behind on rent, utilities or any other basic human need is that the person is a "freeloader." Nowhere in the article does it say Mr. or Mrs. Pierce are unemployed, people I have no personal knowledge of. Rather, there is a hint the opposite is true. How does one stay with a co-worker if not employed?

A common problem is people overextend themselves, renting or buying more house than they can afford. One or the other parent may have been laid off or gotten ill as well, including depression, and cannot work at this time. Alcohol and cigarettes are common mood downers and uppers. We just don't know this family's situation, though I too found it fishy that Mrs. Pierce's beef with the food shelf may be in not being able to get food assistance for all her children with just one application. I would not be surprised the children go freely back and forth between the homes, therefore the mother cannot see the bureaucratic distinction that her children are in separate households requiring separate applications for aid.
-- Posted by Christina Colombe on Sun, Nov 23, 2008, 2:14 pm EST

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"While her husband stayed with her mother in Mount Holly, her teenage children stayed with friends and she and her youngest child stayed with a coworker."

So, was this woman trying to get services for people who weren't living in the same place as she?
I don't know the whole story here, obviously, and I am not referring to this case, but the staff (at any food shelf) do indeed have the obligation to try and get the facts in each case.

Having volunteered at a food shelf, I can honestly say that the staff do all they can possibly do to help those in need. However, there are abuses of the system, and sometimes the hands of those in charge are tied--by rules.
If a person is not actually living in the home of the one asking for help, they are not considered part of the equation. Period. A person could have many children and still not recieve food for all of them if they living somewhere other than in the home of the person applying. The workers sometimes HAVE to ask questions that the customer may take offense to; it's just the way things are. Fairness works both ways, for the benefit of all! People should try to understand this if they can. Of course, the head of household at the home(s) where someone elses' children are staying is more than welcome to come in themselves and apply for those displaced children. Food is fairly abundant but not unlimited, and one cannot get help for someone who is not even living in the home. The need is to try to make sure that there is enough to go around for people who are who they say they are. One "bad apple" can ruin the whole bushel for others who are in need.
-- Posted by myhapp4ever on Sun, Nov 23, 2008, 11:38 am EST

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what happen to beggar's can not be chooser get a job and pay you bill if you have to go to a farmer and tell them you are mexican and you need a job they will higher you there. Iam sick of free loaders
-- Posted by Tom free on Sun, Nov 23, 2008, 8:54 am EST

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