TimesArgus.com - We Are Vermont

Auto dealers revved up for clunkers



Jack Castellaneta, general manager of Formula Ford in South Barre, sits in a Ford Fusion hybrid that is a popular upgrade in the "cash for clunkers" program.

Jeb Wallace-Brodeur/The Times Argus

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By Peter Hirschfeld Vermont Press Bureau - Published: August 7, 2009

Vermont auto dealers are cheering the extension of a "cash for clunkers" program credited with energizing new-car sales in the region.

"I'll tell you this – it's kind of put a little bit of life back into the car business and created some excitement," says Brian Foley, sales manager at Formula Ford in Rutland.

The $1 billion Congress initially appropriated for the wildly popular trade-in program is already nearly depleted. On Thursday, the U.S. Senate approved a House bill that funds another $2 billion in federally subsidized rebates.

Used-car owners can get up to $4,500 toward the purchase of a more fuel-efficient new vehicle under the program. Jack Castellaneta, longtime general manager at Formula Ford in South Barre, says people have been lining up to take advantage.

"I think it's great," Castellaneta says. "It's good for business, and definitely is creating a stir in the neighborhood here to get people to come in and at least check it out."

Castellaneta, whose dealership did about 10 cash for clunker deals last month, figures he can get another 20 or 30 trade-in sales under the new extension.

"There's a heightened awareness from all the media surrounding this, and there are a lot of people who thought they may have missed out who are going to want to take advantage," he says.

David Sanders, sales manager at Twin City Subaru in Berlin, says he's completed about two dozen cash for clunker sales. He says the size of the incentive is generating showroom traffic from people who might not otherwise be in the new-car market.

"I think there are people who were planning on getting new cars at some point in the future, and this gives them that incentive to do it a little earlier," Sanders says. "And then there are people that have $100 cars and really not much interest at all in buying a new car, but since they're getting $3,500 or $4,500, they maybe go and do it, even if it's a $20,000 car."

The U.S. Department of Transportation, which administers the program, said Cash for Clunkers has generated more than 184,304 sales thus far. The Toyota Corolla has been the car of choice, according to federal statistics. State-specific data for Vermont was unavailable Thursday.

The program has had some hitches. The deal comes with reams of paperwork that have meant long and complicated hours for dealership personnel. And inventories at many lots have been depleted as dealerships struggle to keep pace with demand.

Castellaneta, though, says it's a worthwhile price to pay for a program that has finally landed a "good news" economy story on the front of the newspapers.

"Anything positive that can happen, whether in the car business, construction, housing – anything that can we can turn into positive I think is great," he says. "Because that's what it's going to take to turn this thing around."

Officials say the $2 billion in new funding should carry the program through Labor Day.



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READER COMMENTS


Fat chance in hell, Comrade Kneepads.
-- Posted by David Bingham on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 12:10 pm EST

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David Bingham. Stop posting. Your credibility is lower than the foundation of my house.
-- Posted by Kneepads None on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 11:43 am EST

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Good Morning Andrew. Sleep well last night? You must have been extremely tired when you made that last post at 11:02PM.

If you can't get your Senator to listen to you, then may I suggest that you shout him down. Just a recommendation. Might as well, everybody else is doing it and it seems to be working quite effectively.

I'm sorry I didn't respond to your part of the question in regards to the Fed. So, I would like to take the opportunity now. First of all, the Federal Reserve is not owned or directly controlled by the federal government. The activities of the Fed are supervised by a Board of Governors, compromising seven members appointed by the President and "CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE". Each member serves a 14-year term that are staggered so that a new governor is appointed every 2-years. This is intended to minimize the influence of any Presidential administration. By the way, the Fed Chairman also has to be "CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE".

Cabinet members are nominated by the President and then PRESENTED TO THE SENATE FOR CONFIRMATION or rejection by a simple majority vote.

You may think I'm funny, but it still looks to me like US History was a nap class for you.

Bennett - I'm referring to your post on Sunday 8/9 @ 10.01PM. You know, the one where you bash carl None for having so many questions. Have you read any of your posts lately?
-- Posted by David Bingham on Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 9:02 am EST

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Your funny. Yes SC justices are accountable to the Senate - good luck getting your senator to listen to you in most states. You still did not respond to the fact that the FED (all but the chairman) is appointed, every position in every department but the actual cabnet members are appointed - all without congressional approval.

I guess before you accuse someone on here of being less intelligent than you, you should make sure you can answer all of the questions first.
-- Posted by andrew desmarais on Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 11:02 pm EST

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Government Website cars.gov Pirates Your Computer 4ever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM30nqfasyU #America #teaparty #TCOT #WTF
-- Posted by Are you Kidding? on Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 10:55 pm EST

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Andrew, when you fell off of the turnip truck you must of landed on your head. Supreme court justices are nominated and then they have to gain approval through the legislative branch. You know, our elected officials. Was your US History class nap time, or did they throw out that course along with Economics too.
-- Posted by David Bingham on Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 9:57 pm EST

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Does a Clunker mean, that you don't have to have Insurance on it, to qualify? Duh?? I guess the U.S. Leg, have no idea, what a Clunker is, go figure, they don't know, who there own State Voters are!! A Clunker is one, that doesn't make Registration standards, in the State in which you live. How can a Clunker qualify, to be driven, on a State road?
-- Posted by Catherine R on Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 8:24 pm EST

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Hey David are you against the communist justice system in this country too? They get appointed ... sometimes for life ... with out any say by the people. Watch out, Comrade Roberts coming threw! (as well as members of the FED and every other appointed post in the govt. which is numerous).
-- Posted by andrew desmarais on Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 7:22 pm EST

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Sorry Kneepads. Did I say communist? I meant comrades.

How about them czars? You know the people that are APPOINTED and not elected or have any accountability to the American voter? I believe there is a self-annointed communist on that panel. Sorry, there I go again.

March on, comrades! Right off the cliff!
-- Posted by David Bingham on Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 4:28 pm EST

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David Bingham: actually Obama is a Democrat, not a Communist and all of his appointees in the cabinet are either Democratic or Republican. No communists. Wrong.
-- Posted by Kneepads None on Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 9:50 am EST

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AYK,

Did you cut and paste this rant from the Palin/healthcare thread? Don't you care enough about us as readers to give this thread its own manic and pointless rant? C'mon, bro, you're slipping....
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Tue, Aug 11, 2009, 6:12 am EST

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The reason Obama wants anything , he said " I will accept any form of the bill to begin with..."
the reason is, once ANY form of the bill is passed, even a minor little dribble, they can ammend and attach anything they want. Thats been the problem with Washington right along, same as what they have done to our constitution and any other bill that had been originally passed but has been altered over the years. They take any bill, and once they have the bill, they make the changes THEY want, then WE are at their mercy.
SO , say no to any form of a bill. They can make tort reform changes all by itself. They can expand medicaid or medicare and alter those parameters, change income levels ages whatever they want. They already have their socialistic systems in place..
They are a very dangerous bunch of people....those libs..
It is a fact that the libs have gotten hwere they are today by starting small, and picking away at bills like vultures on a dead carcass 'til people wake up and say OMG, when didi that pass.?
The reason for the 2013 time to start is to give libs enough time to alter what they want. Also by waiting til then, the next white house administration is bound with bigger bills, so by the time 2013 comes around and recession is over or better, then they will start to steal more of everyones money.
Beware....and REMEMBER
It took the Obammy family 6 months to choose a dog, dont let them bamboozle everyoneinto hurrying now. All they need is one little tiny shred of a bill, they will take it from there
-- Posted by Are you Kidding? on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 3:19 pm EST

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I still think we should never have bailed out these people.. but now, we have to keep them on top or we're screwed!
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 3:16 pm EST

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yeah you're right my bad in reading again.. Apologies AYK.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 3:15 pm EST

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Melissa,ayk said that that people are buying ford,toyota and honda,seems his point was that gm used tax payers money as a bail out,while they are profiting from this cash for clunkers bull.
-- Posted by bob on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 12:58 pm EST

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Here ya go AYK.

http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/bill/toyota-cars-lead-cash-for-clunkers-stats
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 12:30 pm EST

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AYK, people are buying from Toyota with the Cash For Clunkers. Where do you get your news anyway?
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 11:14 am EST

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This program is good only for those people who have jobs to make 'new car' payments. Credit worthy and job etc.
Why not $4500 towards a used car? There are plenty of 'green' cars that are used and sitting on lots. The American people 'speak' when they buy toyota, honda and fords. Boycott GM for being irresposible and greedy. Had GM gone through a regualr bankruptcy, people would feel different.
Good Luck Ford Toyota and Honda!
-- Posted by Are you Kidding? on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 7:31 am EST

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OK THEN: hold on to it cause if Obama has his way you will be sharing with those that dont have stocks and savings . Share the wealth hmm I wonder what that represents?. Any bright bulbs out there Bennett? Walt?
-- Posted by carl None on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 7:27 am EST

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Bennett Shapiro: You cant be that naive . I bet you also believe in the tooth fairy . As I said Good program NOT thought out well. Greed and human nature will win out. There is no one to police this. Sure some will abide but most wont.
-- Posted by carl None on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 6:10 am EST

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For me the best indicator of the recession easing off would be the movement of the S&P 500. Of course for those of your who hadn't noticed, because you have no money, therefore no reason to track the S&P 500 you would know that we have gained 40% from the march as we were at 676 low to the 1010 we are at now.
It took quite a while for the drops in the market to actually affect me here in Vermont. In fact I really didn't feel anything until March when the lows of 676 which thankfully easing off, however we probably won't actually feel market going back up for another good 6 months. However the market is going back up ever since Obama has taken into office. In case anyone hadnt noticed. The market has gone straight up ever since he steped in.
-- Posted by ok then on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 4:47 am EST

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Yea just GOOGLE it like LArry Summers did to predict his "end of recession" There was a recession when Obammy wanted to get elected, and a recession when they needed to spend billions on pig barrel spending, but now that they want something less popular, Larry Summers uses his GOOGLE searches and they show less 'recessioin' searches, so therefore the White House says, poof, recession over. Guess it wasnt so bad to begin with, jsut bad enough for the Obammy's to get elected.
-- Posted by Are you Kidding? on Mon, Aug 10, 2009, 1:55 am EST

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Carl,

You wouldn't have so many questions if you listened to the news or read the newspaper. All of your questions have been answered in recent days. Sorry if I don't feel like spoon-feeding you information I'm guessing you are fully capable of finding for yourself. TRY GOOGLE. Good luck, brother.
.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 10:01 pm EST

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sorry many questions lol
-- Posted by carl None on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 8:13 pm EST

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Just a question. What happens to this program when the money is gone. And on another note Who is watching the cars turned in get crushed? I think maybe they come in the front door and out the back to your local Used car dealer. And of course Parts is Parts for the ones that dont turn them in. And what about the people that cant afford a new car what do they do and the programs that Give cars to needy people what are they going to do. They all cannot afford new cars. Hmmmm Questions questions. ANY answers out there folks. Nah I thought not. Good program But as usual Not thought through well enough. More good money after bad. Feel good program is only temporary.
-- Posted by carl None on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 8:07 pm EST

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There you go again, Andrew. Jumping to conclusions. Glad you kept the race card in your pocket this time.
-- Posted by David Bingham on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 3:11 pm EST

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I honestly don't believe he reads any post or thinks about what it says before he cuts and pastes one of 10 or so pre-written responses.
-- Posted by andrew desmarais on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 2:02 pm EST

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Journal of accountancy is considered propaganda?

It has actual break downs of tax breaks, credits and deductions.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 1:08 pm EST

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Thanks, Andrew. Now that I know you base your decisions on liberal propoganda that explains everything. Have a great day!
-- Posted by David Bingham on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 12:53 pm EST

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And now after Obama's plan is underway, the economy is showing lots of signs of turning around. Credit markets are thawing, the number of new unemployed is slowing, real estate sales have moved into positive territory. Have you not been paying attention? Why is it so difficult for you guys to admit that Obama is doing a decent job? The American economy was on a precipice. Across the board tax cuts were obviously NOT the way to go as they had shown ZERO positive effect in the past. Targeted stimulus was. Why is it so tough to admit that even as a possibility?

I'm not saying that this administration has all of the answers, because I disagree with them regularly. I am saying that their approach to the economy has worked as far as beginning to fix problems left in the wake of massive blundering, obliviousness, and greed on the part of the Republicans. How long this approach continues to work is an answer only time will tell.

For all of the Republican talk on financial responsibility, its actually Democrats like Clinton (who turned our National deficit into a surplus) and Obama who work toward financial stability, fixing ridiculous Republican spending patterns time after time. Look at our national debt on a year by year basis and you will see that the vast majority of it happened under Republican leadership. Check out this graph:

http://zfacts.com/p/480.html

So you know...
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 12:50 pm EST

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David its better to be thought of as a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Just because YOU personally have not gotten any tax breaks does not mean they are not out there. But since you asked check these out:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/block/2009-02-16-stimulus-home-car-buyers_N.htm

http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/Web/IndividualTaxBreaksinStimulusBill.htm

http://physicianentrepreneur.com/?p=599
-- Posted by andrew desmarais on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 12:46 pm EST

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Yes I'm serious.


I still didn't get an answer from either one of you. only more questions.

HOw did it help?
After 2 rebate checks, our economy still went into the tank, after three years of listening to Bush and his administration saying we are not in a recession.. Lock stock and barrel as soon as the door hit him in the butt on the way out, we were headed into a depression. you do the math, how did it help?????
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 12:13 pm EST

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Andrew, a "large" part of the stimulus was in tax breaks? Really? For who? I haven't received any tax breaks. Wouldn't tax breaks reduce the deficit?

Way to bring out the race card, Andrew! Atta boy! Gold star for your forehead!

Melissa, are you comparing $600 to $3,500-$4,500??? Are you serious?
-- Posted by David Bingham on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 11:50 am EST

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Best post on here yet Olde Man. As for Darin I did not see you posting frantically when we were spending that same 3 billion on corporate welfare under the last administration or when we spent roughly that a week when going into Iraq. If you are going to complain about tax dollars spent try and be consistent.

David Bingham well done with the thinly hid racism, you realize that a large part of the stimulus package was tax breaks right?
-- Posted by andrew desmarais on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 10:46 am EST

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Call it what you want,but we do live in a place where"WE the people"has been written,and should be followed.say what you want,but 3 billion could have been spread across the whole tax base and made more sense then a targeted base.Gee have we not all ready put huge dollars into the auto industry?
I really liked obama at first,but true colors are comimg out.Was there not a profit of old that said something to the effect that around this time a man of color would lead the free world,only to cause complete turmoil and unrest,thats is where we are heading.
-- Posted by bob on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 8:54 am EST

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Darin,

The credit markets were acting pretty dismayed and frozen and now (in great part due to the last week's activity) they're flowing again. Is that not worth a lot to the economy as a whole? And you understand that your tax money ALREADY goes toward other people's vehicles (i.e.: paying for highway projects, paying for the military campaigns that protect American oil interests, etc..) Its the all the folks in NYC who don't even own cars who should really be upset by this. But a lot of them work in banking, so stimulating the economy is helping them, too....
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Sun, Aug 9, 2009, 2:30 am EST

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Bennett, I understand perfectly what type of stimulus it is. I just don't think that my tax dollars should be going to pay for other people's vehicles. We're all going to be paying for this for year.
And since when is 3 billion, an "only" a billion dollars is a hell of a lot of money. There's no such thing as "only" 3 billion. especially when it comes to tax dollars. Congress should be spending money like it's their children's money, because that's what it is.
This congress is out of control. And this is still a stupid program.
-- Posted by Darin on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 10:17 pm EST

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"...If they'd have put that much money back into the American people's wallet we wouldn't have a recession.
-- Posted by Darin on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 1:15 pm EST"




Now that's a point of view that might have merit.

I don't know if my math is right but somebody figured if that 1 trillion dollars that is being spend to selected companies
would be given to every American citizen each person would get about $9000.
A family of four would get $36,000.

Imagine what they would with it!

Everybody would spend or save or pay off according to their needs. Now that would spread the money everywhere and we the people are in charge how the money is spend.

I bet our economy would be booming.

PS
After world war two the new German republic gave every citizen 40 Marks, about ten dollars.
You know what happened to the German economy....

.
-- Posted by A None on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 10:07 pm EST

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Of course that would depend on how your write of your milage. For me my accountant writes off gas as the total amount of money spent on gas. If you look there are actually a couple ways to write down your gas.
-- Posted by ok then on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 7:08 pm EST

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And darin,

This Cash for Clunkers part of the stimulus is only 3 billion. Yet, its doing more to stimulate the economy than refund checks, because in order to use the stimulus money, people have to use $10,000, or $20,000 or $40,000 of their own money. Its stimulating not just auto manufacturing and dealerships, but also the wound too-tight credit markets. Its a brilliant, well targeted program and an unprecedented success. On this, economists almost universally agree. Sorry.
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 5:36 pm EST

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bob and David Bingham,

This what they call "targeted" stimulus. This program was created because instead a tax break (which could be socked away in a mattress,) this is stimulus money that in order to use, consumers must spend their own money too. It is reviving both the flailing auto manufacturers and the dealerships who are currently running out of cars to sell.

ok then,

Most people who get reimbursed for millage as part of their work get the same amount per mile whether their car gets 20 mpg or 40 mpg. If their car gets twice the milage then they get to keep twice the money. 20 mpg, ack! 40 mpg good. 60 mpg mmmmmmmm!
-- Posted by Bennett Shapiro on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 5:00 pm EST

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I heard about the cash for clunkers program. So I asked my ex-wife to go with me....


.
-- Posted by Olde Man on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 4:21 pm EST

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Melissa that check from Bush didn't cost $800 billion like the stimulus is going to cost. If they'd have put that much money back into the American people's wallet we wouldn't have a recession.
-- Posted by Darin on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 1:15 pm EST

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Melissa,at least that check went in my pocket,it benifited me,not someone buying a car.
-- Posted by bob on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 1:05 pm EST

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David Bingham and Bob, did the check you got from Bush help anything. that was for everyone.. what did it accomplish?
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 12:47 pm EST

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Has anyone looked at readers poll on front page. Half said the economy in Central Vt was getting better, Does anyone know where in Central Vt that is happening? And how? Vt dept of labor stats show otherwise as does our city and state budgets. So who knows where and how the economy around here is getting better?
-- Posted by Are you Kidding? on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 10:19 am EST

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Let's see, we (the American taxpayers) bought GM, now we're subsidizing their products. When does the madness end? 1 billion wasn't enough to throw away, we need to throw away 3 billion?
Since they've only spent about 1/6th of the stimulus they should repeal the plan and just stop collecting taxes for one or two months. That would benefit anyone who actually pays taxes and would boost the whole economy way more than the stupid package of payolla and paybacks that the congress passed.
-- Posted by Darin on Sat, Aug 8, 2009, 9:46 am EST

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Another Obama band-aide. Where do you think the cash for clunkers money is coming from? Yes, tax payers. So regardless of whether you get a new car or not you still are paying through your taxes. This program is a joke...Looks great on the outside, but is crap on the inside...kind of like our current president.
-- Posted by derek on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 10:15 pm EST

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We dont have to wait 3 1/2 yrs, we can start in 2010. Get rid of the bums in both house and senate. We the people have the power, we dont need term limits, simply vote them out, the end.
Then all we need done is to repeal the legislation that was passed that has overtaxed us and anything that compromises our principles and morality, stop funding all entitlement programs, give us back all of our social security contributions so we can invest in our own futures , tort limits on ALL lawsuits, and plenty more changes to save our Republic, no more Washington bail-outs. Then in 2012....an awful lot of executive orders to be reverted back and new ones issued. On teh way to 2012 since community organizing works so well and use of the internet, then we need some more Tea Party and other non-profit groups to counter the attack from the evil domestic terrorist organizations called Acorn and Apollo. Thank you to our military for our life liberty and our pursuit to happiness to all and GOD BLESS everyone.
-- Posted by Are you Kidding? on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 9:56 pm EST

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I noticed all the rebate offers dried up once the clunker money started pouring in..so, in reality, you aren't getting any deal at all that you wouldn't have got a month ago..
It also seems to me that it would have been an added incentive to only allow American based auto makers access to the program, to pay back all those loans...however the argument can be made to say sink or swim too, i guess..
-- Posted by CJ maloney on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 9:27 pm EST

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I figured that instead of buying a new car. I would take a business trip each day wasting $50 in gas and eat out everyday on the business trip. I think the only incentive the cash for clunkers program benifits, is losing all the money the government has injected into the auto industry. Its my understanding that GM owes the government millions of dollars.Therefore the government can keep them in business long enough to recoupe there loan paymenst from GM. At the same time having people buy vehicles that cost less in gas money. Therefore lowering the amount that people are able to write off for gas expenses ect at the same time generating enough money for GM and Ford to pay them back what they are owed.
I won't be taking the $4500 incentive. I am going to keep my gas guzzler thank you. I can write off all my gas at the end of the year anyway. Which mind you is quite helpful.
-- Posted by ok then on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 9:12 pm EST

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Wait till you see what happens to these car dealers once the program is over. I hope they are saving their money wisely. No one will be buying a car for quite some time after this program ends. It would have been better to leave it alone then to prop up these dealers for a month. I will bet that this program has lead to no new hiring by manufacturers or dealers because it is temporary. This was not the best use of taxpayer debt.
-- Posted by Jim Eckhardt on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 4:56 pm EST

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Obammy and his band of communists don't even realize what's happening here. It is sad that our elected "know-it-alls" have a combined IQ of a cow-pie. Bob hit the nail right on the head! Tax breaks for everyone, not just auto purchasers, would revitalize all of the economy and much faster than this tax hiking stimulus will ever do. A simple message to the "know-it-alls". IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID!
-- Posted by David Bingham on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 4:46 pm EST

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I would bet a major portion of tax payers cant afford a new car payment
-- Posted by bob on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 11:15 am EST

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Again,I sad direct benifit.An across the board tax break would boost the economy more,while benifiting every tax payer.
-- Posted by bob on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 11:11 am EST

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It is benefiting us all, it's boosting our economy back up. Can please some of the people some of the time, most of the people most of the time, but not all the people all the time.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 11:03 am EST

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It sure would be nice if,the 3 billion being used,at all tax payers expense,actually was a direct benifit to all,instead of just car buyers.
-- Posted by bob on Fri, Aug 7, 2009, 9:58 am EST

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